What is the future for Europe?

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by GScholz
Well, according to our statistics bureau Norway has a stable annual population growth of 0.3%, which is the same as Japan btw.

Edit: Btw. that's a 13.8% increase by 2050.

bingo....it is not the same all over europe, therefore one must look at individual countries.

-edit- norway will have a population of 5,6 mill in 2050 vs 4,6 now, and the money to support it.

[Pei]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The net change  of such migration on Europe's total poulation is 0 - so it's  quite irrelevant in thsi argument about Europe's overall population decline.

It's relevant because you are treating all European countries the same when they are not: there is much more variation economically, culturally and politically than North America for example. What the figures show is that Northern Europe is growing, Western Europe is stable and Eastern and Southern Europe are declining. By far the biggest drops were in those countries outside the EU as well (which are mostly located in Eastern and Southern Europe).

So am I worried about these figures? No: my country is growing at a healthy, sustainable rate. If I was from Italy I might feel differently, but I'm not so I really don't care that much.

Treating Europe as if it was one solid block is a mistake people in the US  make all the time. The different approaches to the Iraq situation should have corrected that.

[Nilsen]

spot on Pei.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by GScholz
Well, according to our statistics bureau Norway has a stable annual population growth of 0.3%, which is the same as Japan btw.

Edit: Btw. that's a 13.8% increase by 2050.

You shouldnt bring up Japan. They are facing huge problems with an ageing population and low population growth rates - its not stable in any way.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Pei
It's relevant because you are treating all European countries the same when they are not: there is much more variation economically, culturally and politically than North America for example. What the figures show is that Northern Europe is growing, Western Europe is stable and Eastern and Southern Europe are declining. By far the biggest drops were in those countries outside the EU as well (which are mostly located in Eastern and Southern Europe).

So am I worried about these figures? No: my country is growing at a healthy, sustainable rate. If I was from Italy I might feel differently, but I'm not so I really don't care that much.

Treating Europe as if it was one solid block is a mistake people in the US  make all the time. The different approaches to the Iraq situation should have corrected that.

The EU will have to deal with these problems as Europe becomes more  and more integrated. By 2050 you will have many of those eastern europeans in the EU. You cant discount that fact and the problems it will bring and the tensions it will create among member states.

[Pei]

Looks like we all said the same thing .

That's a good catch for one day Grun!

[Nilsen]

speaking just for norway i can say that we will have a few years with an "old" population, but i dont think we should ""import"" more people to counter that because when we have gotten over those years we will be back to a normal growth with a stable and younger population. if we do decide to artificialy ""import"" younger people from abroad then the population will grow alot faster, and a very  high population growth will not make anything better in the long run.

[Pei]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The EU will have to deal with these problems as Europe becomes more  and more integrated. By 2050 you will have many of those eastern europeans in the EU. You cant discount that fact and the problems it will bring and the tensions it will create among member states.

No more so than a massive influx of immigrants, many of them poorly educated and non-english speaking will bring to the US, particularly the southern states.

[GRUNHERZ]

You guys seem determined to like these news and be happy with the way things are, which brings me back to my 3rd post in this thread.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You guys seem determined to like these news and be happy with the way things are, which brings me back to my 3rd post in this thread.

and you are free to express them grunherz.

[Nilsen]

"if" he thinks that a larger population will give more wealth and influence then i can understand it. this is however not the case at all.

[GRUNHERZ]

Its a bit of that Nilsen.  Just look at it this way, With the world growing 45%, The USA growing 43%, Asia growing 39%, Europe will fall 8% - I fear it will become a world backwater - a quaint place full of the old and ageing and a nice region for the young productive people of the world to take nice vacations..

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Its a bit of that Nilsen.  Just look at it this way, With the world growing 45%, The USA growing 43%, Asia growing 39%, Europe will fall 8% - I fear it will become a world backwater - a quaint place full of the old and ageing and a nice region for the young productive people of the world to take nice vacations..

i understand what you are saying but i just dont agreen with your conclusion or the use of europe as one entity. americans are often very good at pointing out the differences between states in USA yet see europe as one even if the differences between european countries are greater then the diff between states in USA

[CyranoAH]

From your data, I can fathom:

US of A first language will be Spanish

Asia will be as overcrowded as ever

Europe will have increased quality of life thanks to robots doing all the work (those are not accounted for).

Daniel

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by CyranoAH
Europe will have increased quality of life thanks to robots doing all the work (those are not accounted for).

Daniel

Yay!

i want a robart !