Ta-152 vs Spit 14

[Widewing]

Originally posted by B17Skull12
Widewing, Wilbuz ist de 152 Masta!

Maybe, but I'd put my money on Urchin in the Spit14 vs Wilbuz in the 152.

My regards,

Widewing

[Kweassa]

But one thing does puzzle me- if you go back through the "detailed" scoring page, you can see two things. One, the Ta-152 sees more use, and two, it has always had a higher K/D.

I find this puzzling because the Spit 14 IS the better fighter. Both of em are pretty much el gay 7 bait in the MA, but the Spit 14 should be able to handle itself alright provided the pilot is careful.

So why's the Ta-152 have a higher K/D? Is it just flown by much more timid people?

 
 As a pure fighting machine, no one would ever doubt that the Spit14 better than the 152. But the Ta152 sees more use.

 Then it's a very simple analogy - the cost-efficiency of the 152 is higher than the Spit14. Simply put, the Spit14 is vastly overpriced. It means people may risk 20 points in a Ta152 in dangerous MA conditions from time to time, but much less people are willing to risk 50 points for the Spit14 in the same conditions.

 The higher K/D is also not surprising. As much as people loathe and despise it, being able to fly faster does mean better survivability.

 Why do so many veterans hate the speed-demon planes, or the 'timid' flying of its pilots? Well, to stab a knife into the heart of veteranship( ), despite all the superiority in skill and experience, the veterans still cannot shoot down a total n00b in his superplane, if he chooses to just run away. Ah, the classic case of "It's the machine, not the man."

 Oops, went a bit too far there. But at any rate, considering the same hazardous conditions all planes must face in the MA, having a 50 point plane which can fight better but cannot run away easily, is considered to be worse than having a 20 point plane which is hard to manage, but still can run away easily.

 If there's any one advantage the Ta152 holds over other planes, its the monster dive. Empirically, its the only plane I know that can catch a Mustang or a Typhoon trying to dive and run. Its dive acceleration is like none. It can actually outpace a Typhoon or a Mustang for a lengthy time before finally the difference in max speed takes over.

 So, all the reason more, to either unperk the Spit14, or at least perk it very lightly. It's worth no more than 5 points IMO.

[GScholz]

Originally posted by Kweassa
The higher K/D is also not surprising. As much as people loathe and despise it, being able to fly faster does mean better survivability.

That's a common misconception. The Spit14 is actually faster at all altitudes below 25k except on the deck where they are equal in speed.

[GScholz]

Originally posted by Kweassa
So, all the reason more, to either unperk the Spit14, or at least perk it very lightly. It's worth no more than 5 points IMO.

Not a chance. The Spit14 is invulnerable if flown right; it absolutely dominates any fight it is in. I have never lost a Spit14 to enemy fighters, only a couple to bomber gunners. For MA fights the Spit14 is the best plane in the planeset bar none ... even the 262.

[detch01]

IMO the XIV is the better e fighter of the two (by a fairly narrow margin), accelerates in level flight slightly better and has a better roll rate - significant factors in a fight. Ta-152 v. SpitXIV, if both drivers have their stuff together, the XIV should win below 25k but it will never be an easy fight.
K/D ratio is pretty easy to explain: more people fly the Ta152 than the XIV, consequently when people do chose to fly the XIV they've generally not got much experience in it. Badly flown, the SpitXIV isn't that hard to kill.
Cost/benefit ratio on the XIV just makes it not worth flying in the MA. I've flown in the AH1 MA and I've landed kills in it but getting chased by every la7, pony and typhoon in a 10-mile radius gets old quick. I haven't flown it in the current MA and likely won't.
I'd say get rid of the perk tag and drop the price.

[GScholz]

Below 25K the Spit14 will win (at least) 9 out of 10 fights against a 152 with equally skilled pilots.

[Kweassa]

That's a common misconception. The Spit14 is actually faster at all altitudes below 25k except on the deck where they are equal in speed.

 Except the Ta152H is 3mph faster according to Whels' OTD speeds, and has WEP that lasts more than twice the time of the Spit14

Not a chance. The Spit14 is invulnerable if flown right; it absolutely dominates any fight it is in. I have never lost a Spit14 to enemy fighters, only a couple to bomber gunners. For MA fights the Spit14 is the best plane in the planeset bar none ... even the 262.

 
 Flying "right" or "wrong" is not of any issue here. Or rather, it's the "fly wrong" factor which is more important.

 For a plane that costs 50 points, its not anything that can survive when "flown wrong".

 Compare that to the P-51D, Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9 or the La-7 - which, are planes that usually allow you to survive even when you "fly it wrong"(provided as long as there is enough alt to dive and run, or enough juice left in the WEP).

 These planes, which allow people to stay alive despite flimsy skill, which, veterans despise for their "timid flying" and "bore and zoom", are all free.

 So, when they're all free, how come only the Spit14 is perked? And so heavily?

 The Chog was seeing 20%+ usage in the arena, when it was perked at 8 points. Does that mean HTC thinks the Spit14 will dominate the arena even more than the Chog?

[Karnak]

Originally posted by GScholz
Not a chance. The Spit14 is invulnerable if flown right; it absolutely dominates any fight it is in. I have never lost a Spit14 to enemy fighters, only a couple to bomber gunners. For MA fights the Spit14 is the best plane in the planeset bar none ... even the 262.

Please explain how because I almost never am able to land them and rarely manage to get kills in it.

Frankly, the Mossie is much easier to get kills in than the Spit XIV is, in my experience.

[GScholz]

Originally posted by Kweassa
The Chog was seeing 20%+ usage in the arena, when it was perked at 8 points. Does that mean HTC thinks the Spit14 will dominate the arena even more than the Chog?

Yes, and agree with HTC.

I first realized how capable the SPit14 is in a 3-on-1 fight I had in AH1 against two F6Fs and one F4U. I had already shot down two F6Fs and was on the deck. It was a mixed turnfight/E-fight against the turning F6Fs while I was being B&Z'ed by the F4U. I got two of them, but had to run from the last remaining F6F because of fuel was running low. The Spit14 is an awesome fighter and any comparison with the 152H-1 below 25k is completely out of context. The 152H-1 was never intended to operate at those altitudes, that was to be the job for the 152C which would have dominated the Spit14 below 25k.

The Ta152 needs no perk, the 190D-9 is much better for MA purposes. The SPit14 would seriously unbalance plane usage if left unperked.

[GScholz]

Originally posted by Karnak
Please explain how because I almost never am able to land them and rarely manage to get kills in it.

Frankly, the Mossie is much easier to get kills in than the Spit XIV is, in my experience.

You must be flying it wrong. The Spit14 needs to be flown like a 109. And if your SA is lacking even a 262 will not help you survive.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by GScholz
You must be flying it wrong. The Spit14 needs to be flown like a 109. And if your SA is lacking even a 262 will not help you survive.

I fly it as an E fighter, using it's climb rate.  However multiple cons seem impossible to manage.  The con I am after will just dive for the deck and most things that you meet in the MA easily out dive the Spit XIV.  If you do follow it down that just ensures that all the other enemies are above you.  My experience is that I dive, they dive, I pull up repeat again and again until either I get aggressive and let them gradually pull me down whereupon I die or I run low on fuel and have to leave.  The last four flights I've done it it have resulted in two one kill and land missions and two no kill and die missions.

262s are incredibly easy to survive in.  I've never lost one to enemy fire.  I do have trouble killing in it though as I am not used to the low muzzle velocity of the guns.  Couple that with the speed of the 262 and I don't hit much.

[leitwolf]

Originally posted by GScholz
You must be flying it wrong. The Spit14 needs to be flown like a 109. And if your SA is lacking even a 262 will not help you survive.

The point is that all the SA of the world is useless when everyone jumps you because you bear the mark of the beast (the icon of a 50 perk points plane). The free runners in the game (lala,pony,hunstang..) have a reasonable chance to outdistance the TnB crowd enough for them to lose interest. Fat chance they'll do this when the scent of a "14" icon is in the air... and even such an extremely powerfull fighter like the MkXIV will lose a 10on1.

[GScholz]

Yes the 262 is very easy to survive in, but if your SA is bad you can still get shot down, that was my point. In the Spit14 you must never dive after a fleeing enemy unless he flies a slower plane AND there are no other cons that can effect an intercept on you. Your gang-bang icon will see to it that every enemy in sight will try to kill you, so your only option is to stay high where you are faster that almost all other prop fighters. If you engage a faster (on the deck) fighter in a 1-on-1 and the bogey dives and runs, follow him at altitude where you are faster than he is on the deck. Once his speed has dropped off to max SL speed you will catch up AND be above him ... no escape (standard 109G-10 procedure against faster-on-the-deck planes). Of course this takes time, and if he reaches his friends, or your SA tells you you will be in danger of interception if you fight him and end up low ... you will simply have to let him go. That's the disadvantage of not being spectacularly fast on the deck.

Know the performance of your plane at various altitudes, use your SA and common sense with regard to your own safety and you will be untouchable in the Spit14.

[GScholz]

Let me just make one thing clear: All my experience with the Spit14 is from AH1. I do not know if the FM change has significantly changed its performance in relation to this discussion.

[Karnak]

Not too much.  More torque, less climb, less acceleration.