Author Topic: Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots  (Read 8551 times)

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2004, 03:40:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
That is a fallacy. If what you say is true then WWII air combat would have been impossible. Everybody flew "timidly" in real life. You see ... they only had one life.
The Me109 pilot Franz Stigler was shot down 17 times, and lived. Each of those 17 occurrences would have been a "death" in AH. But your point is still valid. :aok

Fruda said
Quote
"I can't stand the people who whine about "timid pilots" who won't turn fight all the time."
I know what you mean. I have often used the F4U, but it's no turn fighter. It rolls very well, but it climbs like an old man going up stairs, accelerates poorly, not particularly fast in level flight... but it handles well at speed and is a great gun platform, and can do a good horizontal scissors. In short, it is tailor made for B&Z, which presupposes that you start out with at least some altitude. But no way would I descend to con height, slow down and start turnfiting N1K/SpitV etc. Hehe, I was occasionally whined at on Ch1. I don't tune Ch200.

Offline Xargos

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4281
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2004, 03:43:10 AM »
I feel a good pilot knows when to switch form B&Z to T&B then back again.  There is a time for B&Z and a time for T&B in a single engagment, the trick is knowing before you have blown to much E.  I've been playing this game for 2 years now and I'm just starting to understand that process but I still have a long way to go.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2004, 03:45:12 AM by Xargos »
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

"At least I have chicken." 
Member DFC

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2004, 04:54:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
The Me109 pilot Franz Stigler was shot down 17 times, and lived. Each of those 17 occurrences would have been a "death" in AH. But your point is still valid. :aok


Actually not so. In AH they would have been either bails or ditches. IIRC Mr. Stigler ditched most of his shot up rides rather than hit the silk.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Wotan

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7201
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2004, 05:35:21 AM »
Players who continually use generic terms like B-n-Z and T-n-B, as if they are the only 2 options available to them, really ought to hook up with a good trainer.

It’s clear that the reason for their timidity is they don't understand the variety of tactics available to them.

The F4U in AH will roll with an A5 and out turn it depending on the speed. It’s hardly an "un-maneuverable plane". It maybe against Japanese planes but against most other it has its advantages. It's a damn fine ac in AH, all variants. When flown by timid pilots especially against planes like the zeke it is just as lame as any other.

The only way to pick up new skills is to test yourself. You wont learn anything flying "smart" all the time.

One of the most aggressive moves any player can make is after a fast pass instead of running 25 miles or zooming into space is to simply Immelman.

Repositioning above your target at a moderate alt advantage allows you to be ready almost immediately for a follow up pass. Keeping the pressure on your target keeps him off balance. Long extended separations and climbs do nothing. They are easy to avoid and react to.

Being aggressive when you have the advantage is the key. Why extend 3k when 1k puts you right back in? Rapid quick maneuvers in the furball puts you at such an advantage that you in fact can become invisible in the midst of a battle while out numbered. No one is saying slow down to 150 mph and turn a tight black out circle.

Hans-Joachim Marseille claimed that in the perfect visual conditions over the desert (similar to the visibility in AH), large formations (or furballs) are in a visual disadvantage against highly maneuvering single aircraft. He preferred to fight alone, with a single wingman providing warnings from a safe distance. He claimed that when fighting alone in a short range dogfight, he could quickly fire at anything he saw, while the attacked formation's pilots were confused, hesitated, and switched to a defensive position that further increased the lone attacker's chances.

He deduced that over the desert, a fighter pilot can become "invisible" only by extreme maneuvers at close range, and that the intensity of the maneuvering was more important than the speed of flying. By "intensity of manuver" he doesn't mean fly recklessly but delibrately. Some one like Levi or Shane or Urchin can help you all understand what that means. Most of the time they just don't get lucky and end up on your 6 because you messed up. I doubt any of those guys are ever thinking "how can I run away from this" but rather "here's what comes next, they all die".

I don’t know how many times in events and the like or in the main my guys were out numbered badly. Over vox the question is, "What do you want to do? Live for ever?" Being aggressive and turning into the enemy we were able to set the tone of the fight without running and without having to climb to 60k. Fly how you want but there is more to fighting then what most of you describe. Being "timid" is not the smartest way or the best way or even the most fun way to fight. I tried it and it sucked :p
« Last Edit: August 22, 2004, 05:40:29 AM by Wotan »

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2004, 06:46:37 AM »
Very well said Wotan.  

If anyone wants to know what a timid pilot looks like, here's a film of one in action.  It's really sad to see the P-38 being flown like this Rook flew it.  Timid pilots should be forbidden from flying that plane.




Brave Sir Robin


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Online nopoop

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2004, 11:56:12 AM »
I enjoy one thing in this game above all else. I suck at it but continually put my self back in there. It gets my juices flowing.

I had a sortie a couple of weeks back where it all came together. I only killed one but I was working the mob. Best sortie I have ever flown. I died. But what a blast handling the mob. If I could shoot, I could wittle them down..

Levi's the resident pro at what I enjoy.

Levi's Many

Note: Have three of his films up at the website.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2004, 12:06:25 PM by nopoop »
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight..

Offline Jasta

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 253
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2004, 12:03:12 PM »
What I do is up an F6F... 75% or 50% fuel, and a drop tank. Fly to the nearest area of action, and jump into the first place with more enemies than friendlies.

Ive landed as many as 9 kills this way, and Ive also landed nose first in the water a bunch more times. But I always like to go into a big fight and just see how it turns out.

My favorite was in Bish-land a few days ago. I was fighting 2 guys by myself... Killed em both, then 4 more showed up. Somehow I managed to kill them all too with only a minor fuel leak. I would have made it home too, but got a disco.

Best fight of my life.

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2004, 04:28:44 PM »
Quote
One thing, don’t confuse what folks are saying. You can have fun any way you want. Just don’t expect other folks to share your view and be prepared for the comments that will inevitably follow.


 I disagree. Banters, mischievous name-calling, "comments" and etc etc is all fine and dandy against somebody you know, or if it would end in a friendly or a indicating no real bad taste is intended.

 However, judging by the growing level of hostility in such "comments" that came to pass during the last couple of years I'd say it becomes a routine harassment that people have to take, just because they can't fly like a vet or is not a superace. There's a reason why channel1 was shut off by HTC, and I'm growing to understand why.

 In other words, keep your comments to yourself. This ain't the friendly "smallville", AH it used to be. It's a large arena bustling with people who have different ways of thinking. "Commenting" in such an arena is like "I hate the way you look" in Harlem. Don't stir up trouble when it is not needed.


Quote
One thing that has changed in AH is that folks take "mocking" and friendly exchanges of taunting personally. In past I remember only Karnak throwing a fit that some folks referred to spit pilots as "spit dweebs". Now say spit dweeb and 4 guys will run to the bbs with a thread entitled "Am I a dweeb for flying a spit?" Well the answer is of course you are, we all are.


 I personally agree. But essentially its feeble and friendly idealism. The MA is not what it used to be and people need to realize that. "Mocking" really can hurt people's feelings. The arena we fly in is something vastly different from the place once chest-thumping worked - and people gotta realize that. Especially the veterans, who just can't seem to be able to keep their mouths shut.

Offline simshell

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 786
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2004, 07:37:29 PM »
maybe we should just add AI pliots that fly from point A to point B and dont turn so the cherry pickers can have fun

why do they need people for that?
known as Arctic in the main

Offline Hornet

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 469
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2004, 07:56:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
I personally agree. But essentially its feeble and friendly idealism. The MA is not what it used to be and people need to realize that. "Mocking" really can hurt people's feelings. The arena we fly in is something vastly different from the place once chest-thumping worked - and people gotta realize that. Especially the veterans, who just can't seem to be able to keep their mouths shut.


So the request is "please stay quiet and proper while I try to get it together up here so I can attempt to terminate your virtual life from the safety of my B&Z perch"?

Because of the dynamics of the relationship in which we interact with other players, kill or be killed -- there is an intensity to this particular genre that will never go away, nor should it.

Some embrace, some move on. But every new generation goes through it.
Hornet


Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2004, 09:54:02 PM »
Good man Polaris. If only there were more like you.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Online Shane

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7419
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2004, 09:57:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Polaris
I dunno about any of you, but I play this game for the realism.  And part of that realism means actually trying to return from my sorties.  


so when you die, and i'm sure you do... in the name of "realism" you cancel your account and then open a new one?

 :rolleyes:
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798

Offline WldThing

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2366
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2004, 10:04:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shane
so when you die, and i'm sure you do... in the name of "realism" you cancel your account and then open a new one?

 :rolleyes:


Im quite sure he didnt mean it to that extent  ..

:rolleyes:

Online Shane

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7419
Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2004, 10:15:02 PM »
ooooo... so there's some kind of "line" in terms of "realism?"

if he wanted to say he plays to survive, but he had to toss out "realism."  others toss out "timidiity." and there's a "line" there too.

:aok
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798