Author Topic: Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots  (Read 8553 times)

Offline Midnight

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Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« on: August 21, 2004, 04:02:15 PM »
Why is it that the furball types are always so worried about the other pilot that might be flying "timidly".

We always hear from the fuballers that they don't care how the other guy flies and that they are not trying to control how other people play, but we also always hear them getting upset when the "timid" plane doesn't come down to mix it up with them so it can be shot down.

I say give it a rest. If your in a spinning, turning fight at tree level with 20 other planes and more coming every minute, what difference does it make if someone comes zooming through there at 300+ MPH?  ---- Don't make excuses like it's too hard to track the guy who is diving through at those speeds from higher altitudes either, because I highly doubt your able to track all the planes in the fight your in either.

Offline Morpheus

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Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2004, 04:07:48 PM »
Its more fun to bait that "timid" pilot into a turn fight and suck all of the E out of him along with his advantage and kill him rather than talk trash on open Ch.
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Offline nopoop

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Re: Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2004, 04:27:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight
Don't make excuses like it's too hard to track the guy who is diving through at those speeds from higher altitudes either, because I highly doubt your able to track all the planes in the fight your in either.


The timid ones that orbit above the fight are the easiest to track. They take a few of forms.

The one that dives through everyone and augers at the base below.

The one that does a feeble pass at one of the group and "extends"

The one that waits until a certain con has his hands full, swoops down at the right moment to pluck him and ...."zooms".

His countrymen did the work, he just takes what's offered.

The one that makes a few feeble passes gets sucked in and has his soggy butt handed to him.

Sounds real exciting to me but every one has there particular brand of fun.

In my case, flying to live and for score I did quite a bit of. Not here, somewhere else. It just got real boring. Almost tossed in my flight system because of it.

Aze holes and elbows knee deep overloaded in a fight is never boring.

But that's just me.
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Offline _Schadenfreude_

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Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2004, 04:35:43 PM »
You boys need to learn to fly something other than a spit9....

Offline Raptor

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Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2004, 04:38:50 PM »
I get in alot of fights where they have more alt than me and spend 5+ minutes in failed attmepts to bnz. Its boring until they get fed up and burn their E just enough that I can take their tail off:aok

Offline Kweassa

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Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2004, 05:04:41 PM »
The funny thing about this, is that most of the veteran pilots also fly timid, when the situation requires them to do so.

 Sure, they say how they never back away from a fight and how they can manage a so-called "BnZ" plane in angles fight.. except I've never seen them do that when the odds look bad.

 So what usually happens is when they see a one vs one opportunity they'd bravely (and admirably) engage the enemy in an exciting battle. But when things start to look bad, they don't hesitate to run away.

 They call it "SA" - except the unfortunate thing is when other, lesser pilots also use their own "SA" to run from a fight it's branded as cowardice.

 I mean, for instance, I know I'm a sucky pilot. So what's a sucky pilot gotta do in a situation he feels that he cannot win? Should he stay around and get shot down, and offer the enemy a chance to gloat? Is that the "right way" of flying?  

 Or is this "SA" stuff something of a double standard?

 .....

 Another funny thing is, I've been around for years and have seen many types of people come and go. One thing I've learned is when people say "I want a fight", it usually, actually  means "I want an easy fight so I can win in it hands down, and gloat about it".

 Do people really want fights? In that case, there's always a fight. Usually in some other corner of the frontline there is always a place where it is vulched, or being pushed back by hordes of enemies.

 Except, you never see "I hate timid flying" group of people near it. Near a really hard fight where good pilots are needed more than ever.

 I ask for help, and they say they fly AH for fun, and there's no sense in trying to hold a line against bad odds.. how such "hordes of enemies" is "bullshi* gameplay"... and how they aren't gonna care about strats or war situation, and just wanna go have fun by themselves...

 Oh well that's just fine and dandy.

 But why not once in a while come by in a front where their skills are really needed? If they can always shoot down any enemy without flying timidly as they claim, then the more of them we have in those hard situations, the better chance we will have to hold the bad guys back - and at the same time, the sheer number of enemies would also mean more targets to shoot down!

 But you know what, when they do sometimes come in those places, they don't hesitate to choose a "superplane", and they certainly don't fly angles fight with it. I mean, its only natural - what kind of a stupid would want to fight like that in such bad odds?

 ....

 Yup, that's what this is really about IMO. They want others to fly stupid, while they themselves want to fly smart. They want to knock down every "superplane" in the sky with their inferior planes, to show off their prowess - except, when the "superplanes" use its speed to run away, they don't like it. Hey dudes, nobody forced you guys to fly in your slowpoke mid-war fighter, remember?

 So if most of the people don't fight the way they expect them to(which is, namely, the way which they are duped and get shot down) - they get upset, and start ranting on Ch200.

 ....


 Don't get me wrong. I personally hate BnZ.

 I also heartily agree that ACM and E fights are more than just "Bore and Zooming".. and I also agree that a neophyte pilot who uses nothing but BnZ, will become a half-wit pilot who is decent in offense, but sucks in defense. And I also agree that such pilots will ultimately never see the true fun in A2A combat, and always will have to rely on a certain plane type to pull them out of tight situations. That's all true.

 However, I also think that's the norm. I don't expect everyone else to become superpilots or even just good pilots. Like I myself am average, I expect most others will also be average. And average people, need all the edge they can get to survive. Its a means of survival - flying timidly, that is.

 And personally if I'm not in a plane that can catch the timid runners - heck, nobody forced me to use a slower plane.

 Like everything else in aircombat gaming, ultimately, its my poor choice of planes that allowed the timid flyer to run away. I could always have chosen the same superplane to drop them out of the sky, but I did not. I chose a more difficult plane to get more satisfaction in killing stuff. That should also mean that in certain situations, there would be things I cannot do in such a limited plane - perhaps the most common such situation being that I cannot catch a running La-7 in a lesser plane.

 So it's basically all my fault - isn't it? Shouldn't that what a logical person think?

 Ahhhhh.. indeed, no matter how much wise-cracks they spew, at the heart the 'veterans' aren't so logical people afterall. The unfortunate part of all this is that skill level does not always coincide with wisdom, or even basic manners.

 They want others to fly more and more stupid, never use their speed advantage, and get shot down hopelessly in a battle they cannot win -  while they themselves will do anything possible within their grasp, to survive.

 Vulch, gangbang, altmonkeying, cherrypicking, spawncamping, running away, extending, endless climbing... you name it. I've never seen a "dirty trick" that a dweeby "n00b" does, that a veteran himself does not.

 .....


 I don't mean to drag this down into "hypocrisy" accusations. But I honestly believe that no matter how a pilot is good, he is still human. Everybody is.

 So, if a certain good pilot has a high K/D and high chance of shooting others down, there's gotta be some more reason behind it. And I dare say that it is because they never fight a fight which they cannot win, or hope to win. In other words, in heart, every macho guy in town is just another sissy when it comes down to bad odds. First thing they do against bad odds, is figure out how to escape with their planes intact.

 So in the end, who's calling who timid?

ps) Ofcourse, there are other types of skilled people, who literally don't back away from a fight. And ofcourse, in a sound sequence, they'd eventually get shot down.

 All's well that ends well - if they can keep their mouths shut. But alas, they just can't stop commenting on how retarded others are, and how they would have killed everyone if it was a 1vs1.

 Dudes.. this ain't the Medieval ages. You charge in like a lone head-strong knight into hordes of peasants armed with pikes - and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out you'll get slaughtered in the end.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2004, 05:11:05 PM by Kweassa »

Offline sax

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Re: Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2004, 05:12:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight
Why is it that the furball types are always so worried about the other pilot that might be flying "timidly".

I say give it a rest.  


I say try the other shoe . Untill then do your own thing , ignore the taunters , leave it off the BBS.
Most furballers could care less what timid players do or think or the other way around I'm sure.

Offline beet1e

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Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2004, 05:38:59 PM »
Midnight - well posted. :aok


I have lots of stories I could share, eg. folks in uberplanes (with 3-4 buds nearby) demanding that I fight - my F4U against 2 Spits, LA5 + 262 for example - or the P51D who sat over the top of my G10 with an 8K alt advantage, demanding that I play with him.

Also, I've learned in this game that folks who are full of bravado on the BBS, behave quite differently in the game. (and they know who they are)

Offline Urchin

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Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2004, 05:42:42 PM »
Depends... there is a difference between what'd I say is cautious or prudent, and what is timid.  

Yea, if I'm the only friendly in a sector full of red cons, I'm going to try to drag one guy out to kill at a time.  That means getting within icon range of a couple, waiting till they start to chase me, then running till it is down to one guy.  Then I'll engage.  

If I have alt on any number of cons, I'll engage, and I typically stay engaged till they die, I die, or higher enemies come in to force me into dodging their passes and avoiding their lower friends zooming up.  Then I'll leave, if I can.

What irritates me is just the stupid bull**** stuff.  For instance, say I'm in a 190, got run down by an el gay or 3.  Is there really any need for the 5 spits to dive in?  For christ's sake, just the el gay by itself is more than enough to kill any 190, much less multiple ones.  But folks aren't satisfied with 2v1, 3v1, 4v1.. they just keep piling in.  

Another thing that really irritates me is the el gay that will "bounce" you, figure out you aren't AFK, then make half-hearted bore n zoom passes till he decides to run.  So then he  runs until you turn around, at which point he turns around and starts chasing you, but he won't actually fight.  He just sits there making lazy bore n zoom passes waiting for his friends to show up.  

I actually had one the other day do this boring **** for a good 10 minutes before he finally decided to give up.  To his credit, he didn't actually dive to the deck and run, he just flew away.  Then he PM's me and says "Sorry, you are just to much for me" or something like that.  I'm in a 190a5, flying around all by myself (was actually looking for folks milkrunning the factory near this guys base).  So about a minute later or so a P-38 and something else (a runstang I think) come charging in, then they zoom.  Well, the runstang zooms, the P-38 would go clear out past icon range before he'd turn around.  Eventually I get the runstang down to where it is almost a fight instead of him acting like a yo-yo, and guess who comes back into the "fight".  Holy hell, the dip**** in the el gay!  I mean, gimme a break, go ****ing land or something.  

And yea, it isnt just the el gays that do timid **** like that, although the vast majority of the timid folk are in them these days.  But there are a fair number of timid people flying around in run90s, typhs, and runstangs too.

I don't have a problem with people flying cautiously.  Hell, I fly cautiously if I have the advantage vs a plane that'll kick my bellybutton once I lose the advantage.  What I do have a problem with is flying so cautiously it is like you aren't even trying to kill the guy, just trying to run him out of gas or bore him to death.

Offline nopoop

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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2004, 05:51:19 PM »
Ahh..but it is better to have lived and lost.

Then not to have lived at all.

KW you got the Beet put to shame with that wall o' text :D
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It's ALL about the fight..

Offline Octavius

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Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2004, 05:53:50 PM »
Ditto all that Urchin posted.  Now put yourself in a P40 or a Zeke in that situation. :cool:   I sit back and attempt to think... baffled.  I just dont understand it.  Recently it hasn't been a problem.  More players are putting up some neat moves instead of the bank turn fire run repetition.  When it does happen, it's like they fly unarmed.
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Offline Nilsen

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Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2004, 06:14:44 PM »
I fight to win, and if i have to be "timid" and B&Z then i will.

Offline Octavius

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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2004, 06:19:48 PM »
Alright I see two separate interpretations of 'timid'.  I went on about pilots that, even though they have a tremendous advantage (situational or mechanical), they choose not to engage or even run.  

Midnight calling the BnZers 'timid' is a different situation altogether.  Hell, if you engage, make a pass, that takes a minute amount of aggression.

Personally, I mix it up.  Most often depends on my mood and the machine I'm in.
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Offline Fruda

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Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2004, 06:20:13 PM »
Same here, Nilsen.

Offline Wotan

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Re: Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2004, 06:26:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight
Why is it that the furball types are always so worried about the other pilot that might be flying "timidly".

We always hear from the fuballers that they don't care how the other guy flies and that they are not trying to control how other people play, but we also always hear them getting upset when the "timid" plane doesn't come down to mix it up with them so it can be shot down.

I say give it a rest. If your in a spinning, turning fight at tree level with 20 other planes and more coming every minute, what difference does it make if someone comes zooming through there at 300+ MPH?  ---- Don't make excuses like it's too hard to track the guy who is diving through at those speeds from higher altitudes either, because I highly doubt your able to track all the planes in the fight your in either.


It depends on how you define timid. An altitude advantage and conserving energy isn’t necessarily timid. It depends on the pilot and the situation. A timid pilot will begin a dive and make no real attempt to press home his attack if it’s apparent the guy he is attacking has noticed him. He will then zoom as high as possible or extend a sector away and wait for you to ignore him only to repeat this process over and over. What I call bore and ZZZZ. He usually relies on longer range spray and pray gunnery to get a "kill".

Its simply boils down to the fact that the "timid" are no fun to play with. They are boring individuals and make the main tedious at best. They are a complete waste of time regardless if you kill them or not. They just aren't fun.

A typical timid flyer will dive in from space then "extend" a sector and a half away before he is comfortable doing anything else. After which he will wait until you are rtb or engaged by at least 5 other guys before he will make another "bore and ZZZZ" pass.

So timid flyers are boring. It's nothing to avoid 30 bore and ZZZZ passes. Practicing aerial strafing runs is hardly what I would call fun and wouldn’t waste my time with it.

Some people fly this game not only to "get kills" but to find the best "fight" as possible regardless of the outcome.  Victory is always sweet but it’s the fight that gets the blood moving.

20 spits or 20 la7s is typically more fun to fight then 1 timid p51 pilot. It’s just too boring. At least the average spit / el gay 7 pilot will mix it up. Of course there are just as many timid el gay 7 pilots as there are anything else.

I hope you are picking up on the theme here. I will say it once more; timid flyers are boring.

Why pay 14.99 to fly like that? There's target drones that fly a wide circle off line. Seems to me it would be about as much fun as shooting down those.

Folks will call it like they see it. If a player only fights like that they should get thicker skin because some one will call them on it.

I am not going to argue with those who will come and say things like “I prefer smart flying” and “why should I T’n’B at tree top level”. That’s all just a lot of BS. They are other ways to fight besides simply "pull stick to belly” and” fly at 30k for some bore and ZZZZ”. If they are under the delusion that there is nothing else then they are in worse shape then I thought.

YMMV