Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots

[Stang]

I see your k/d in the F4U-1D is 2.72.

Beet, that's cause of a couple jabo hops in it where I kinda screwed the pooch a bit

Fighter hops alone my k/d in it is above 10.

[Stang]

By far, the best Hog flying I have ever seen and one of the best fights I have ever had ... the sweaty palm, heart-thumpin kind of fight

LOL!  What a fight that was bro!  Definately the best stallfight I've been in since the coming of AH2... I seem to remember landing on the cv with 10+ holes in my wings, 4 in my cockpit and one huge crack running across the width of my canopy  

Slappy!

[Wadke]

I wish i could fly like Stang does.... Especially in a Hellcat and P-40


As a side note the FM was changed a little in the F4U...it has better turn rate now than before and stalls not as harsh IMHO

[Stang]

Beet, I'm not sure where you arrived at that k/d for me in the u1-D... I just looked, I have 61 kills and 5 deaths this camp in it.  How is that a 2.72??

That's still includng a couple lame jabo hops

But still she is sweet... Wadke I noticed something different, didn't know what it was, she just felt better to me.  I think that's probably what it is, definately doesn't snap roll during an accelerated stall like she used to.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by mars01
Funny how it is only the non furball types crying here and making accusations.

The timid flyer doesn't fight and is afraid to die.  They don't push the envelope of their skills or plane and are very boring to run into regardless if they are TnB or BnZ.

Many peopleonly fly a plane a certain way because they can't fly it any other way and probably rarely try to because they are affraid to die, if they were not afraid to die they would try different things.  These guys are not timid they are just boring.

This is just a game.  Personally, if I am not too tired and I feel up to the challenge, I will turnfight in a Corsair and many times I'll be surprised when I end up winning and get out with my hyde.  For me it's the challenge.

The bottom line is this is a game and you can be a no risk taker always fly safe and never push a bad situation and puff your chest out about your score type or you can push the edge have some great fights and provide a lot of fun for not only yourself but the other guys you come up against.  I would rather die then have people think, "man how boring it is to run into mars, he never fights."

I think Wotan et-al are on target too.

You make it sound as though those who fly tactically, have only ever flown tactically, and can only fly tactically. This is not the case. Anyone who has been playing these games a long time has done it all, and can do it all. The way we choose to fly now is just the way we have found to be the most fun and rewarding personally.

I think it's dangerous to assume just because someone flies with self-preservation in mind they therefore cannot TnB/Furball/angles fight. Most people start the game ONLY TnB'ing/furballing/angles fighting, and only progress to the more patience intensive tactical approach after years of experience. I can't think of anyone who is in any way an even margianlly successfull E fighter who is not also very good at angles fighting. You simply have to understand angles fighting to properly energy fight. I can, however, think of many people who are fine at angles fighting, but lack the patience, discipline, SA, TA, and aim to be a successfull E fighter.

Zazen

[mars01]

You make it sound as though those who fly tactically, have only ever flown tactically, and can only fly tactically. This is not the case. Anyone who has been playing these games a long time has done it all, and can do it all. The way we choose to fly now is just the way we have found to be the most fun and rewarding personally.

I think it's dangerous to assume just because someone flies with self-preservation in mind they therefore cannot TnB/Furball/angles fight. Most people start the game ONLY TnB'ing/furballing/angles fighting, and only progress to the more patience intensive tactical approach after years of experience. I can't think of anyone who is in any way an even margianlly successfull E fighter who is not also very good at angles fighting. You simply have to understand angles fighting to properly energy fight. I can, however, think of many people who are fine at angles fighting, but lack the patience, discipline, SA, TA, and aim to be a successfull E fighter.
 

No I dont.  

"I think it's dangerous to assume just because someone flies with self-preservation in mind they therefore cannot TnB/Furball/angles fight."  I never made that assumption you did.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Zazen13
You make it sound as though those who fly tactically, have only ever flown tactically, and can only fly tactically. This is not the case. Anyone who has been playing these games a long time has done it all, and can do it all. The way we choose to fly now is just the way we have found to be the most fun and rewarding personally.

I think it's dangerous to assume just because someone flies with self-preservation in mind they therefore cannot TnB/Furball/angles fight. Most people start the game ONLY TnB'ing/furballing/angles fighting, and only progress to the more patience intensive tactical approach after years of experience. I can't think of anyone who is in any way an even margianlly successfull E fighter who is not also very good at angles fighting. You simply have to understand angles fighting to properly energy fight. I can, however, think of many people who are fine at angles fighting, but lack the patience, discipline, SA, TA, and aim to be a successfull E fighter.

Zazen

There is a lot of truth in what you say, but I would bet dollars to donuts that the majority of those that fly "tactically" couldn't find their arse with both hands when they find themselves faced with a "fight".

[Wotan]

just because someone flies with self-preservation in mind they therefore cannot TnB/Furball/angles fight.

You have it completely opposite. You presume just because someone likes to fight that they must "die a lot" or don’t fly with intention of surviving.

It’s that attitude that seems to prevail with those who are "overly concerned" with being shot down in the first place. Look at Beetles replies; every chance he gets he throws his "scores" out as if they mean anything.

No one said "if you don't fight my way you are timid or can't fight". I am beginning to think you didn't even read the thread.

I certainly haven't read where anyone said "Zazen because you fly to live you are timid". If you feel your style of play is the best fun you can have well have at it.

Midnight asked a question and folks are offering their opinion. Several definitions of timid have been offered, take your pick. If you don't feel you fit in with any of those definitions well good for. But that's not what this thread is about.

To the truly timid being shot down is threat to their "fun" and as such they fly overly cautious and are boring. It may not be boring to the guy being "timid" but he is to quite a few of us. As such some folks will be all to willing to let the guy know how boring he is. This puts us back on topic.

Timid flyers are boring. It's that simple.

FYI:

“E” fighting isn't just about high speed passes and long extensions and super zooms. When I flew the G-6 in AH I was usually on the deck “E” fighting.

Regards,

Wotan

[dedalos]

Originally posted by mars01
Yeah but no matter what you up you fight regardless.

Yep, Mars is right, thats the point.  Fight, does not matter how as long as you do.  BnZ me to death if you have too, as long as we get a fight out of it.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by SlapShot
There is a lot of truth in what you say, but I would bet dollars to donuts that the majority of those that fly "tactically" couldn't find their arse with both hands when they find themselves faced with a "fight".

What he said.  I've been plaing for a couple of years now and the times I met the great 'tactical' pilots that know how to survive, I can count on less than one hand.  

Lets see, Fester I met three times in two years ( got vaulched twice and the third he was hiding in the CV ack trying to get alt so he could come back and vaulch again).  (Nothing personal Fest but those are the only times we met)

A certen other god of flying I met once when he dropped out of the sky to kill my already engaged bombers and then disappear.

Try getting in to a furball (even if you just BnZ or cherry pick) and come back with 8 kills and land like Slap, Levi, YUCCA, Mars, Morph, Steve and a ton of others I don't have time to list here, and then lets talk about tacktics, SA, and ACM.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by SlapShot
There is a lot of truth in what you say, but I would bet dollars to donuts that the majority of those that fly "tactically" couldn't find their arse with both hands when they find themselves faced with a "fight".

That's my point, that is not the case at all for the most part.

How many new, relatively skilless players, say to themselves, "Hmmm, I'm new I don't don't how to fiight, I think I'll get in a fast plane, grab some altitude, carefully and patiently weigh and subtely manipulate energy levels for kills"? No, 99% of new players get in something that turns well, they fixate on one bandit and try to stick to him like glue until they kill him, get killed by him or someone else. Naturally, that pattern leads to that person eventually getting better at angles fighting. Only from there can they successfully progress to energy fighting.

So, anyone who is a successfull energy fighter, has already become a successfull angles fighter and moved on. If they chose to they could easily hop into a Spit V and angles fight with great alacrity, they simply choose not to. Also, consider plane match-ups and the undisputed fact some planes lend themselves to angles fighting alot better than others. Taking an aircraft out of its designed context for the sake of amusing your adversary is just foolhardy. It's not cowardice that makes the Typhoon pilot decline an angles fight with a Spit V, it's common sense.

Zazen

[Shane]

Originally posted by Zazen13
So, anyone who is a successfull energy fighter, has already become a successfull angles fighter and moved on. If they chose to they could easily hop into a Spit V and angles fight with great alacrity, they simply choose not to. .
Zazen

i have to disagree as this is patently wrong on so many levels.

i just don't feel like going into a dissertion as to why, atm.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Shane
i have to disagree as this is patently wrong on so many levels.

i just don't feel like going into a dissertion as to why, atm.

lol Shane

[Urchin]

I can think of at least one example of a very successful "energy fighter" that can't turnfight for beans.  And that is just off the top of my head.  

I don't nescesarily think the two skill-sets are mutually exculsive, but they are by no means inclusive.  You don't need to angles fight if you fly a fast plane to "energy fight" with... you just need to run away.  So that is what people do.

[Stang]

So, anyone who is a successfull energy fighter, has already become a successfull angles fighter and moved on

I think I have to disagree with you here my friend... This was your personal experience, making the pregression from noob to great angles fighter to E fighter extraordinare   However, most do not go through this process as you did.  Again, I really think it comes down to natural talent and feel as to who becomes a poor, average or good stick.  You have all the skills and can do whatever you wish w/ 99% of the MA, but for the average guy flying his la7 they have one option, run, cherry pick, run and run some more.  I see this fact in the DA a lot... some guy (usually a very experinced vet) will challenge me and we go at it a couple runs, and I sware at merge they have no frikkin clue about what to do.  Hell, just yanking the stick back to your chest and turning as tight as possible will make for a great fight, but 9 out of 10 guys I fight don't even do this.  They seriously look like they have a "what do I do now?" look on their face (after all they can't ho me in the DA on merge   )  Now, from an experienced vet, you wouldn't expect this, but it's truly the norm.  Why? I don't know.  Absolutely baffles me.  Do I care?  Not as long as they're easy kills