Author Topic: No distinctive icon for perk planes!! (Read 2577 times)

DipStick · « **Reply #30 on:** August 23, 2004, 05:29:25 PM »

Have to go with the generic icons. If you wanted to go with ALFs suggestion within 1k that'd work too. Never liked the specific tags or perk tags. Just my opinion.

Midnight · « **Reply #31 on:** August 23, 2004, 05:58:02 PM »

I agree that Icons should be generic.

They have to give some detail becuase you can literally be going up against ANY of the aircraft at any time, but identifiying exact type at long range seems too easy.

Limiting icon info to stuff like 109 , 190, P51 , P47, etc. like we have now is great for planes with variants

However, it is unfair for planes without multiple variants.

tactic · « **Reply #32 on:** August 23, 2004, 07:40:05 PM »

Yeh , people do like to kill ya in your perk plane thats no doubt, but I fly my perk plane knowing that too. everyone has great points, lets just not mark them at all would be ok too. mark the country they from B K R
1k 1k 1k

thats cool

ALF · « **Reply #33 on:** August 23, 2004, 08:42:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Midnight
I agree that Icons should be generic.

They have to give some detail becuase you can literally be going up against ANY of the aircraft at any time, but identifiying exact type at long range seems too easy.

Limiting icon info to stuff like 109 , 190, P51 , P47, etc. like we have now is great for planes with variants

However, it is unfair for planes without multiple variants.

Aint it a kick in the head....no matter what solution, one side or the other gets hosed:eek: Either we subjugate the early war planes, or we unfairly identify non varient planes while keeping planes like the 190 or 109 masked in secrecy.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of specific tags, but only at close range....not 6k Its decisions like this that make me glad Im not HT.

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #34 on:** August 24, 2004, 12:15:44 PM »

I agree with ALF and company... general tag until close enough to really be able to tell the diff..

I don't understand why HT would discourage the use of perks as a balancing system then decide that they where doing an inadequate job. Maybe a better implementation of a design would be better than another solution.

hitech · « **Reply #35 on:** August 24, 2004, 12:31:06 PM »

Alf pyro and I have disccused that idea long before this thread came out.

Edbert · « **Reply #36 on:** August 24, 2004, 12:48:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
Alf pyro and I have disccused that idea long before this thread came out.

......and?

Inquiring minds want to know

ALF · « **Reply #37 on:** August 24, 2004, 07:30:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
Alf pyro and I have disccused that idea long before this thread came out.

I would like to thank HT for omiting the comma, and making it look like all three of us consulted in the games development:D

BTW....does this mean I dont get any residuals?

Soda · « **Reply #38 on:** August 24, 2004, 09:30:24 PM »

Generic icons give a little "surprise" to each con. Makes you respect the con as if it's the "best" model when you may not be facing that. Typically you can tell pretty quickly what you are facing just by watching the performance in relation to your own. That can also make people sloppy though and give breaks to some of the earlier rides (like watching a Spit turn to avoid what they think is a 190D9 only to hae the 190A5 turn right with them). Same with the C-Hog/D-Hog, you don't know and must respect 4 hispanos so you have to be more cautious around a D-Hog until you really identify it. Having both as F4U I think makes both Hog versions "better".

I think the perk icons make the not-clearly-dominant perk aircraft attention magnets (SpitXIV, F4U-4). There is simply no suprise in knowing you are facing a SpitXIV, if you thought it was a SpitV or IX most people would get caught off-guard.... that's what the perk value would buy you. The 262 and 163 are different, they are massively performance dominant and the perk tag doesn't really hurt them, they could both carry unique tags.

At least that's what I think.

-Soda

Halo · « **Reply #39 on:** August 25, 2004, 11:55:10 AM »

I like HiTech's explanation that different names are there so they can be hunted, and I like Alf's suggestion that variations of planes be identified at only closer ranges such as 800 and less.

Seems best way to enhance both gameplay and realism.

Buzzz · « **Reply #40 on:** August 25, 2004, 06:14:47 PM »

Why not make it some kind of option like choosing the color of the icons? Allow us to choose.

Sometimes I would like to turn off the enemy icons completely and leave only the friendly ones on. (I know you can make the text labes smaller but even at the smallest setting it still takes away from the immersion factor.)

I also really wish I could display the icons without the country symbol. For the most part I don't care which country the enemy is from because I have managed to figure out what color shoots at me. Country symbols make it hard to see the text anyway.

Just make more player options in the icon option screen. The default is all the way up now. Make it so if a player wants to turn down the information they can.

(I'm sure no one is interested but my personal preference would be to have no enemy icons during special events, generic labels in the MA, and no country symbols on the labels at any time.)

-Buzzz

Karnak · « **Reply #41 on:** August 25, 2004, 06:44:27 PM »

Buzzz,

You can turn off enemy icons while leaving friendly icons on. Press CTRL-I (or maybe it was ALT-I).

You can also set icon colors to whatever you like. My enemies are red and my friendlies are blue.

Buzzz · « **Reply #42 on:** August 25, 2004, 06:57:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Buzzz,

You can turn off enemy icons while leaving friendly icons on. Press CTRL-I (or maybe it was ALT-I).

You can also set icon colors to whatever you like. My enemies are red and my friendlies are blue.

THANKS Karnak! I did not know that. HeyOH! (I was only looking in the options menu.)

The colors I already have set custom. I was so used to red being friendly from AW that I set my colors that way and made the enemy green out of respect (and lingering hate) for that AW country.

-Buzzz

dragoon · « **Reply #43 on:** August 26, 2004, 01:07:43 AM »

agree with ALF and soda

Quote

Originally posted by Soda
Generic icons give a little "surprise" to each con. Makes you respect the con as if it's the "best" model when you may not be facing that. Typically you can tell pretty quickly what you are facing just by watching the performance in relation to your own. That can also make people sloppy though and give breaks to some of the earlier rides (like watching a Spit turn to avoid what they think is a 190D9 only to hae the 190A5 turn right with them). Same with the C-Hog/D-Hog, you don't know and must respect 4 hispanos so you have to be more cautious around a D-Hog until you really identify it. Having both as F4U I think makes both Hog versions "better".

I think the perk icons make the not-clearly-dominant perk aircraft attention magnets (SpitXIV, F4U-4). There is simply no suprise in knowing you are facing a SpitXIV, if you thought it was a SpitV or IX most people would get caught off-guard.... that's what the perk value would buy you. The 262 and 163 are different, they are massively performance dominant and the perk tag doesn't really hurt them, they could both carry unique tags.

At least that's what I think.

-Soda

J_A_B · « **Reply #44 on:** August 26, 2004, 04:39:11 AM »

"We have been discusing make all tags unique."

HiTech

Yay! I hope it becomes more than just a mere discussion

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"Generic icons give a little "surprise" to each con. Makes you respect the con as if it's the "best" model when you may not be facing that."

You say that as though it's a good thing.

It isn't.

What it means in practice is the guy in the "surprise plane" is winning a fight because his opponent couldn't make the proper tactical decisions, not because the winner actually outflew or out-skilled his opponent in any way. How is that fun? Seems stupid if you ask me.

I feel every airplane should have a unique ICON. This means you know what you're up against and you fight the enemy PILOT.....not some "surprise" factor. Winning a fight with a 109F because your opponent thought you were in a G-10 is a hollow victory IMO.

Not to mention such a system is inherently unfair to aircraft which don't have variants, like the P-38 and F6F and the upcomming Ki-84. They don't HAVE some other differently-perfoming model to "hide" behind. Even as it is in AH, the Spit's, 190's and especially the 109's gain a silly advantage just because it's now completely impossible (due to skins) to tell the variants apart.

And....don't bring up "realism". To every "realism" person who says "well Spit 5's and 9's were hard to tell apart", I can just as easily ask how often Spit 1's flew on the front lines alongside Spit 14's. The MA is by definition not fully "realistic". "Realism" (itself such a subjective term) must always be given secondary consideration to gameplay. The upcomming "TOD" arena, if and when it is created, will likely better cater to the people who want more strict "realism".

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While I think the ICONS need to be distinct for every plane, I ALSO have been an outspoken advocate for reducing ICON clutter. I believe that the now-useless 0's on the range part at less than 1K yards can be removed since they no longer serve any purpose. The "country" icon picture can also be removed and instead give each country a unique color.

In addition, make liberal use of upper/lower case lettering when possible--for exaple, with regards to the 109 varieties, you could have a "109E", "109F", "109g", "109G"and a basic "109" for the G-10. Doing this would involve using virtually no more space than current ICONS and would result in smaller overall ICONS if the earlier suggestions are also used.

I like the idea of ICONS displaying sub-type at less than max range; however this range still needs to be enough so that you can ID the type before comitting to a fight. Around 2.5K yards would work.

As a general indicator, I also like how WarBirds ICONS would lose any plane-type data at extreme range (I would do this for 5k-plus in AH). This too reduced clutter and lets face it....if a plane is 5K+ away it doesn't really matter much what model it is.

I liked AW's ICONS--which were off to the side so you couldn't just "follow the icon in battle"--best of all, but obviously AH is not going to utilize such a system.

J_A_B