No distinctive icon for perk planes!!

[TDeacon]

I'm only a beginner at AH2, and have finally apparently accumulated enough points for perk planes.  However, I am reluctant to use them because most have a distinctive "kill me" icon.  It doesn't appear to be worth the small amount of extra performance.  

Why not give perk planes the "type icon" only?  For example, F4U, Spit, etc.  Invent a combined icon for Typhoon/Tempest like "TyTemp".  In the real world one could not distinguish these planes at long range, so why should we?  Additionally, it would make perk points a more desirable motivator, which should have game balance benefits.  

Comments?

[lasersailor184]

Someone once had an idea of the icon changing at different ranges.

I.E.

6.0k-3.0k standard base model like A6 Zero, or Spitfire.
3.0k-1.0k Specific Model Like A6m or Spit 9.
1.0k-0.0k Any perk plane becomes obvious.  Like a spit 14 will be a spit 9 up until it is under 1k.  Then the tag turns to spit 14.

[Wotan]

Hitech answered this in an old thread

Here's what he said

The different names are there so they can be hunted.

HiTech

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110894&highlight=icon

You still gonna beat this dead horse?

[TDeacon]

Who knows, what with the latest numbers balancing issue, maybe Hitech would reconsider.  

I recall that one of the arguments against using perk points to achieve balance was that perk points weren't important enough to motivate people.  One reason they aren't is the "kill me" icons.  

Since the game changes over time, there is always the chance that he will change his mind on this.

[Wotan]

I hope not and so do quite few people.

Perks are designed to be rare. Their value and icons aid to that. Planes aren’t perked on performance but because of a mix of issues. Impact on the main for one, see chog. Rarity, see the 152.

The perk cost variations didn’t work not because of the tags but because with the type of game play that the majority participate in, i.e. war winning. In this context all of the perk planes are useless except the chog and not worth the risk while doing jabo or base capture stuff. The chog doesn’t carry a tag.

Perk points aren’t of any value unless you use them. Hording them because you feel you aren't good enough, or new, or because you are afraid some one might actually try to shoot you down is rather ridiculous.

So what if you get shot down? What good are the perk points just sitting there? Even if you loose them so what? They are easy enough to get back. I would suggest that you grab one head to the nearest fur and have at it. After you see how fun it is dragging around and killing the guys chasing your icon you will get over any perk tag anxiety you have. I don’t know what see in the main but I was also ganged regardless of my icon. Folks were always trying to shoot me down.

[J_A_B]

Every plane should have a unique ICON


J_A_B

[SunKing]

Originally posted by J_A_B
Every plane should have a unique ICON


J_A_B

I'd like to know Hitechs response to that. Sounds like a good idea,perks would still be hunted and variety would be added to the game like the new skins have brought.

[Wotan]

That’s not a new suggestion. If after all these years he has yet to make that change why would he now? He changed the fuel porking and added a number balance fix because they were needed. Changing the plane type icon isn’t. There's nothing new to argue here.

Perk planes are a separate issue and with the exception of the la5fn and la7 (maybe he took a wait see on this plane in regards to perking it thus it La7 or he was already stuck with la5 icon) and the 202 / 205 the rest are generic. What do you call them MAC?

Perks are different. The icons were made intentionally so that they would be visible for the reason HT said above.

In rl telling the difference between specific types while in combat would have been difficult. Unless the ac had an obvious structural change you couldn't tell. However, based on intelligence and the performance the pilots saw they could guess a change was made. They didn’t necessarily fight against large numbers of mixed variants spawning the range of the war.

Simply accepting the idea that you are meant to be hunted while in your perk plane seems a whole helluva lot easier then any other suggestion.

[Innominate]

The icon is there to punish you for flying a perk plane.  The perk costs are there to allow you to earn the privlege of flying it.


Wotan, What you do once you accept that the perk icon is there for you to be hunted, is stop flying the perk planes.

All model icons should be replaced by the airframe name.  LAV for the la5/la7, SPIT for the spit14, etc.  It makes no sense to have some models that you can spot easily(la7 vs la5) and other that you cannot.(190a5 vs 190d9)

[Wotan]

Wotan, What you do once you accept that the perk icon is there for you to be hunted, is stop flying the perk planes.

No thats what you do . I still flew the 152 because it is fun, even with guys chasing my tag. The rest of the perk planes are of no interest to me me free, tagged or other wise.

But let's say that some folks don't fly perk planes because of the tag then that falls back to this point:

Perks are designed to be rare. Their value and icons add to that.

The same guy that complains of the tag complains of the cost.

My attitude has always been to say no to welfare perks and no to hiding behind your icon while in a perk plane. You and I have went round and round on this in the past.

As you can see by HT's reply I quoted above his intention was to have them hunted. Being hunted isn't a bad thing. If don't care to have folks chasing you then don't fly them. But as I said above no matter what plane I was in folks were always trying to shoot me down. No matter if I was in a 202 or G-6.

This discussion is as old as the first perk planes in AH. I dont think there's any thing new that would cause HT to revisit the issue. But I don't speak for him. I think the perk system has been relatively successful in making planes that would not be available under an RPS but 1 day a tour or might not have been modelled at all.

I think that there's room to expand the perk system once more planes are added to the plane list.

[ALF]

The perk icon is nothing more than an attept to make the lesser perk planes next to useless.  The only value I have found for perk planes other than the 262 and 163 are to lure the enemy away from my goons planned flight path.  Because they offer only marginal advantages over 'normal' planes, the perks are only really an advantage in a 1 on 1 enviroment.....and just how many stable 1 on 1 fights are there with no other enemy within range to come over and join on in.  

It makes the game very gamey in that respect, and is the most enduring problem to date.

[Wotan]

The temp; the spit 14; the F4u-4; and 152 are all decent planes and can handle any plane in the arena.  If you have trouble in them that is completely different then saying that they are worthless. They are worthless in your hands maybe, I have no idea how or what you fly typically.

The temp, the f4U-4 and spit 14 have incredile climb rates for instance. This will allow you to rope many a perk tag chaser.

[Innominate]

F4U-4? Incredible climb rate? Compared to  what? A jug or the f4u-1? The P38, Dora, 109g10, 109g2 all outclimb it pretty easily.  Up to about 6000 feet the 190A5 will outclimb it.  Above about 3000 feet the spit9 will out-climb it.

Perk tags aren't a problem if you follow the rule of 'never be less than 10k above any group of enemies'.  They require ultra-conservative flying that is boring for anything but a fairly hardcore score-potato.  Like you said, the spit14, f4u4, and 152 can handle any one plane in the arena.  The problem is that unless you enter a fight area at 25k, you're going to have to be able to handle several planes.

And what I see repeated quite often(and which I repeat myself) is, "The cost doesnt matter, it just needs to lose the tag.".  The cost affects how often people _can_ fly an aircraft.  The perk tags make people not want to.  It seems silly to me for a game to have a reward system which ends up not being a reward of any kind.  

The lesser perk planes don't need to be unperked.  The perk tags just need to be removed.  Even if that means tripling(or more) the cost of them, it's better to have an expensive plane that people want to fly, than a cheap one that only the most timid of pilots want to fly.

It's also worth noting that in my experience, the 152 tag seems to attract far less attention than the 'BIG' icons of the SPIT14 and F4U4.

[hitech]

We have been discusing make all tags unique.


HiTech

[ALF]

Originally posted by hitech
We have been discusing make all tags unique.


HiTech

I just see that type of idea as very arcade.  I can understand some of the lines of reasoning that lead to this type of idea, such as all La-7s are easily identified as La7s with all the knowlege you have about their performance, while the 109 or 190 has a very broad range of variations, thereby giving those pilots a little bit of a cloak of vaugness, and now with multiple skins, you can no longer tell variations just by coloration alone.

However on the converse, by applying variation specific tags you would be doing to the early war planes, exactly what has happened to the late war Perk Planes....making them targets.  As it is now, we have a gangbang mentality on lesser planes like the P40 and other slower early war rides, this can be especially apparent with some of the light bombers/dive bombers (SBD, TBM, B5N2, Ju87).  These planes are considered 'easy kills' and so are hunted down ruthlessly.  However, while this may be a valid tactic becuase they are bombers going to kill strats etc.....the exact same mentality will prevail over the lesser fighters.  

If you give a virtual pilot a choice of attacking a Bf109 E4 or a Bf109 G2, everyone in the know will attack the E4 because it is much slower and has much less punch in its ammo load.  This will make the E4 a bad chioce not only because it has less ability, but because that lesser ability is broadcast to everyone within a few miles.

If such tags are decided to be implimented anyway, I would hope these specific plane icons would only apear under 1000 yards.  I still find it silly we have things like an F4u that can have a perk specific tag at 3 miles away.