Author Topic: She wass only 16  (Read 2885 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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She wass only 16
« Reply #75 on: August 23, 2004, 06:13:10 PM »
Is Norways government and legal system equally valid and moral as that of nazi germany or Iran?

But yea GS go ahead and ignore moronic outbustrrs lie Vulcan's, its absolutely neccesasry for you to maintain yoiur fallacy.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #76 on: August 23, 2004, 06:38:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
In my opinion our system is superior.


Ok..

Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
In their opinion I would think not so.


Really?

Lets ask Klaus Stern:


Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #77 on: August 23, 2004, 06:50:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Was Mr. Stern a German Nazi or an Iranian? Didn't think so. Please make sense.


OMG!  I will just let your words speak for themselves...  maybe one day you will understand what you just said...

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #78 on: August 23, 2004, 06:55:14 PM »
quote: You do something horrible that cannot be allowed by international law and the morals of all civilised peoples: I will kick you in the nuts until you stop doing it!


Should Iran suddenly begin exterminating people like the Germans did, then it is another matter entirely. Don't you see the difference?


So practicing genocide within their own country is not a violation of international law or immoral to civilized people as was happening in Iraq.

Therefore executing a teen for having a sharp tongue is also ok.

Check
« Last Edit: August 23, 2004, 06:58:02 PM by Maverick »
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Offline newguy

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She wass only 16
« Reply #79 on: August 23, 2004, 06:58:39 PM »
You just cant/wont see his point can you Grun. I dont like what happened, but its their law. Were they to line up a couple million and do the same, based on their race, then I think the situation might be a bit different. Your dislike of something dosent make it "wrong".

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #80 on: August 23, 2004, 07:02:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Perhaps one day you will lern to stay in context Grun. You asked me if I thought our justice system was better than that of Nazi Germany or Iran. I said yes I do but I doubt they did/do. You bring up a photo of a man who is obviously not a Nazi or an Iranian, to somehow prove that German Nazis and Iranians didn't/don't consider their system better then ours.

Perhaps one day ...


Funny.

He was a citizen of nazi germany..

Just like the 16 year old girl in Iran.

Maybe her voice doesnt count here because she isnt some mullah?

Thats what yiou are saying in the case of this man.. His voice doesnt count because he isnt a nazi.

You are a clever debater, I'll give yoiu that, but none of these technicalities you so despreatly cling to changes the fact tht you are wrong.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2004, 07:05:12 PM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #81 on: August 23, 2004, 07:04:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by newguy
You just cant/wont see his point can you Grun. I dont like what happened, but its their law. Were they to line up a couple million and do the same, based on their race, then I think the situation might be a bit different. Your dislike of something dosent make it "wrong".


I see his point.

Nazi germany's laws  made it legal to kill jews en masse.  They wewre declared to be criminlas and they were punshed according to german laws.

Thats the simple problem GS faces and thats why he is trying to ignore that question..

Offline bustr

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« Reply #82 on: August 23, 2004, 07:07:29 PM »
GScholz

I beleive I understand the foundation for the question/construct you are posing to us. Regardless of our moral foundations and how we have read this article, or read into the article, the girl violated a cultural law. The law was exercised and punishment was enacted.<---This is the simple of it if we leave out our moral outrage.

In the first 3/5 of the 20th century the United States allowed business as usual in the south east toward african americans. Essentially an issue of states rights as I remember, rather than federal civil rights. It took the moral outrage of a non-southeastern voting block to convince Kennedy's involvment by a trumping of states rights with elevating the treatment of african americans to a federal civil rights status as a protected class of citizen. A minority.

In Iran I beleive their classes are by religious sect, rather than ethnicity. As such how the girl was delt with is an internal affair, and not the business of the world community. If the Iranian Mullas suddenly decide to have all non-ethnic persons inside of Iran to be gassed from today on, that opens the door to external intervention.

Just because of how law and punishment is metted out differently from ours by another culture, does not morally give us the right to impose our culture's values by War. Saddam qualifyed for War by gassing Kurds and filling mass graves with his own dissenters. Iraq and Germany have a parrallel. The 20th century showed the United States that we did not always get what we thought we wanted by helping, manipulating, or Attacking a regim. Just because we can stomp a country flat in the 21st century for persuing religion\LAW differently than us, it is not a moral justification.

How the 16 year old girl was delt with is reprehnsible. I have lived in the middle east. The judge had her executed through the legal system for something as minescule as his ego. My judeo\christian morality says he is wrong. Fataly so. My personal inclination toward that individual brings to mind images of wood chippers and squeeling pigs.

So with the afor admitted moral feelings, I nor the U.S.A. have the right to declair War on Iran. That judge's actions is a matter for the Iranian people to decide if they have had enough of.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #83 on: August 23, 2004, 07:08:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
If you do something your justice system deems illegal, your voice does not count in your country either. You will be tried and punished according to your laws.


Right, those lawyers representing accused jews during the holcaust  really tried they best but they just lost case after case after case iafter case after case after case after case after case after case after case in nazi germany..

You are wrong.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #84 on: August 23, 2004, 07:10:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
I've already stated that when that happened had we not already been at war with Germany we should have invaded them to stop it. Now stop lying.


Why should you have invaded? According to valid german law they wrere just exacuting criminals! And you said that internatinal law allowsc the exacution of criminals.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #85 on: August 23, 2004, 07:13:00 PM »
So what saddumb, usay and uday did was ok then.

Check.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #86 on: August 23, 2004, 07:22:21 PM »
Every jew was tried according to nazi german law (read: Hitler)  and found guilty. To them they were only executing criminals. Why are you advocating interfearing with the workings of germany's criminal justice system?

Do you deny the fcat that Hitler, who was the ultimate valid german legal authority, declared that all jews were criminals?

Your stance is that all legal systems are valid and should be free from outsider  interferance. So you do nothing in this case...
« Last Edit: August 23, 2004, 07:29:33 PM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #87 on: August 23, 2004, 07:26:50 PM »
GS you arent so insane that as to think all legal systems are eqally valid.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #88 on: August 23, 2004, 07:36:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
No I don't think all legal systems are equally just (what would "valid" mean in this contex?), but I also think that I have no right to force others to adopt my way of thinking.


You just said you would attack Germany because of their treatmnent of jews whom they judged to be criminals according Hitler who as absolute dictator was the ultimate arbitor of nazi germanys law.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #89 on: August 23, 2004, 07:46:07 PM »
Go ahead keep on ignoring the question GS...