Author Topic: 30mm Mk108  (Read 2089 times)

Offline Dead Man Flying

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30mm Mk108
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2004, 12:23:21 AM »
Do a test like Nath and I did a long time ago to test 30mm effectiveness.  We went to the DA, and one of us took a bomber and the other a 30mm-armed plane.  We would both establish a constant speed and the fighter would drop to a constant range behind the bomber and fire one 30mm round at a time.  We then recorded the number of hits it took to bring down everything from B-26s to Lancasters to TBMs.  We then tested the effectiveness of various other armaments from other planes (37mm, 40mm, etc).

We found that in AH1 at least, the 30mm seemed to kill bombers (i.e. remove enough critical components to render it incapable of flight) with as many rounds as historical documents indicated, on average, it should take.  Thus the killing power seemed accurate.

Try that in AH2 and see if it takes some abnormally large number of 30mm rounds to bring down stuff in a more or less controlled environment.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline LLv34 Jarsci

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30mm Mk108
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2004, 08:36:57 AM »
Yesteday  flew 262 and pinged one LA5 on his engine cowl, saw hit very well, beceuse range was less than 200 yrds. ...

He lost his oil but nothing else...

Another P38 was killed easily with 7 hits thought, rear assembly fell off...

storch

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30mm Mk108
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2004, 09:18:44 AM »
Here's what I see.  In a deflection shot 1 ping in the wing root is all it takes from the 6, 3 pings will take out a tail assembly or deasses the target.  HTC has a penetration issue, and not just at home either. :D

Offline Kweassa

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30mm Mk108
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2004, 09:42:58 AM »
I think this has to do with how the DM system works, rather than power of the cannon itself.

 The vast majority of kills we score in AH is associated with structural damage. Some may prefer HOs more than the orthodox style of shooting from behind ;)... but usually we latch behind a target and shoot him from his 6.

 Now, for this general purpose the 30mm cannon is truly a one-ping wonder.

 When enough damage is registered that certain part will be destroyed. Usually, these parts are directly associated with the plane's structure - wings, tail section, stabilizers.. etc etc. A hit to these parts will immediately drop that plane from the sky. One ping from the 30mm, will kill the enemy plane if it hits a structure-related area.

 However, there are other damageable areas in AH. One major areas is the cockpit , the other is the fuel tanks. The third area, which takes up the entire frontal area of the plane, is the engine block.

 Hits to the cockpit result wounds to a pilot. A powerful weapon like the 30mm results in a kill usually.

 Nobody is sure how the fuel tanks work, but at least from what we can perceive.. - hits to the fuel tanks will cause a leak, or ignite a fire. Or, if the damage is critical and spontaneous enough, it will explode the plane  - usually when it hits a large fuel tank inside the main fuselage.

 Hits to the wing tanks usually cause the wing to fall off before receiving enough damage to explode it ( <- this is my theory. I've never actually seen an AH plane explode from damage to the wing fuel tanks. )


 However, my guess is, that the engine block has no damage equivalent that is powerful enough to destroy the plane entirely - unlike pilot deaths or fuel explosion/ignition.

 For a quick comparison, engine blocks of the planes in IL2/FB are very critical areas. Not only does it leak or seize up, but it also ignites in flames, blows up. Also, some types of powerful damage to the frontal area will cause the destruction of the entire block, causing the engine to fall off from the plane.

 Compared to that, I don't think I've seen AH engines ever catch fire. The only fires I've seen are those extending from the rear fuselage(probably meaning flames at rear fuel tanks). Nor have I ever seen an AH engine explode.

 I could be wrong - but at least my guess is that hits to the frontal of area of the plane results in only two types of damages to the plane - engine seizure and/or oil leak. I don't think there's a damage type powerful enough to destroy the whole plane, when shots are landed to the engine area.

 Perhaps that's why 30mm shots landed at the frontal areas of various planes, only causes fuel leaks or engine stoppage. Come to think of it, I've never exploded an enemy plane in a HO when shots land on his engine block. Pilot kills that blow up the plane, I've seen many times.. but shots landed on the engine part never just blows it up.


ps) Perhaps that is also the reason why there are so many HO collisions in AH....! If you don't blow the enemy up with a pilot kill, or snap his wing off... shots landed to the engine block will only stop his engine - thus, he still travels towards you.... and will ultimatley collide, despite the numbers of shots you've landed on him.

Offline rod64

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30mm Mk108
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2004, 08:59:42 PM »
Very interesting read guys...

I have had a few issues with cannons as such, but more in the 40mm area from a PT boat. In all accounts, this is an awesome weapon, but it does not seem to have the power is should have. I "fly" the PT a fair bit due to my incompetence in a fighter, and use the 40mm as the ranging weapon on incoming bombers etc when screening a carrier. I had landed 3 and four hits on smallish bomber / attack AC like TBMs and A20s without knocking them down, this seems very unlikely to me.

I have tried the 190 with 30mm onboard, it is very effective for killing GVs at 600-800 range no problem. I doubt I could hit a London Bus doing 100mph straight and level in the air with it though. I prefer the 20mm.

Offline Charge

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30mm Mk108
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2004, 05:43:52 AM »
A Couple of nights ago I was again flying G6 with 30mm and on the same flight shot down a Spit and F4U, both by hitting them in the wing root, and the wing coming off (1 or 2 hits). To me it seemed like they were in perfectly good condition, not missing parts or leaking anything, but was only granted assists?!?!?!

I don't understand how this damage model and kill system works...

-C+
"When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a giant meteor hurtling to the earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much screwed no matter what you wish for. Unless of course, it's death by meteorite."

Offline Dead Man Flying

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30mm Mk108
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2004, 10:54:31 AM »
Ran some tests last night with Urchin in the DA.  With single shots fired into the fuselage of Lancasters and then B-17s, the killing power of the 30mm Mk108 seems identical to AH1.  It took no more shots on average to bring down the buffs than it did in AH1 (~4 for a B-17, ~7 for a Lanc).

Just an FYI.

-- Todd/Leviathn

storch

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30mm Mk108
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2004, 12:48:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Ran some tests last night with Urchin in the DA.  With single shots fired into the fuselage of Lancasters and then B-17s, the killing power of the 30mm Mk108 seems identical to AH1.  It took no more shots on average to bring down the buffs than it did in AH1 (~4 for a B-17, ~7 for a Lanc).

Just an FYI.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Thanks Urchin and Levi