Author Topic: perhaps an alternative to plane disablement (Read 1275 times)

thrila · « **on:** August 28, 2004, 05:28:53 AM »

I don't mind it myself as it's not often i fly a low ENY plane, but i know a number of people who don't like it.

I was thinking of instead of disabling the outnumbering country's planes, how about disabling their offensive capability. If a country's % gets too high then disable 1000lb bombs, higher still and disable 500lb bombs. This way the outnumbering country must make more sorties to disable a base to the same degree as an aposing country.

This way a country with a large number advantage can still fly their fave plane, but are at a disadvantage when attacking.

Sorry if this idea has been discussed before, i admit i've not read every post in the 8 page thread.

sax · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2004, 07:29:49 AM »

Good idea Thrila , only problem is that would create a bigger nastier horde.

I've totally enjoyed the better more even fites lately along with seeing squads like the AK's on the same side even if only for a tour.

Hows about adjusting the ranking so players or squads score higher the longer they fly for lower # country.

For the moment tho HT's idea is working other than peeing in peoples favorite rides.

Ghosth · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2004, 07:33:36 AM »

I've said the same thing in 2 other threads.

Actually if you want you can take it farther than that.

Standard loadout would be 500lb bomb.

Country with the high #'s only gets 250s. (Could if it gets too bad lose em entirely)

Country with least #'s gets 1k's to help them counterattack.

If you watch real footage of attack planes from 1942,43 they only had small bombs.
Even the bombers were loading small bombs mostly with maybe a couple of 1k's.

It wasn't until near the end of the war that supply got enough ahead of demand that 1k bombs became common.

Fauxbra · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2004, 07:27:03 AM »

I must agree the Eny disablement thingy is not working well. Im thinking as an alternative why not make Perk rides FREE for the team that is seriously outmanned. Or limit Fuel or Ord or Troops for the dominant team. Perhaps some combination of alll of the above might work better.

jodgi · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2004, 07:32:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by sax
Hows about adjusting the ranking so players or squads score higher the longer they fly for lower # country.

I think a score mod would bump things in the desired direction, it sure wouldn't do be constrictive in any way.

(I'm for any side equalizing remidies, even ENY disablements.)

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2004, 07:51:20 AM »

The score thing wouldn't work. You'd create a hoarde of jumpers just so that they can get first place. Then they'd brag about it.

jodgi · « **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2004, 08:08:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
The score thing wouldn't work. You'd create a hoarde of jumpers just so that they can get first place. Then they'd brag about it.

As long as the "jumpers" would even out the teams I would call it a great success. I really don't care about the score in itself.

But, assuming that score matters...

It is easier to get good score flying for the swollen side, generally speaking there is less risk and greater "score potential" in flying with the bigger side.

To have a score mod that takes this into account only seems fair to me.

I'm aware that there are many situations where you could fly for the big side and still be locally outnumbered, but I'm treating this as an exception.

You're right in saying that "the score thing won't work", at least in the sense that it doesn't fix everything. Many players don't care about score, but far more players do care.

SlapShot · « **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2004, 09:28:10 AM »

I think the ENY disabler is working great. It still needs a few little tweaks, but all in all, it is doing what it is supposed to do, and with success.

twitchy · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2004, 09:28:54 AM »

I say quit bellyaching about the hoardes, leave our plane sets alone, and if you have to have balanced numbers, make the two weekers balance the arena. Is it fair to tell me I can't fly a p51 if the bish have ten more two weekers on than the knights? I like being outnumbered from time honestly, its realistic. Do you think germany started carrying on because russia had more soldiers? Maybe if you could pork their fuel like you used to, you could slow them down eh? Oh yeah that's gone now. Well maybe if you could go and get a town down with a couple of guys behind enemy lines and draw them off the front... oh yeah we can't do that anymore either, the towns are huge now to prevent just that... well maybe we could fly to a far off base out of the way of the front lines... oh yeah can't do that either the fuel burn rate is 2x... How about a CV attack to a location off the front... well that would be ok for a minute or two till someone shows up in a single 110 and takes all the guns down... anyone else see a pattern here? Honestly guys, this bellyaching is starting to effect everyone's game play.

SlapShot · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2004, 09:33:26 AM »

Most people are really missing the point here.

For the most part, numbers ARE NOT changing.

The horde is still the horde, but in different planes (can you say early war), or a lot of then are sitting in the tower crying into a towel or on the BBS.

Ya don't want to balance numbers ... oh well ... grab an early war plane. Ya might have some fun.

Kevin14 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2004, 10:42:50 AM »

The problem is, who cares if you can't take bombs? I'll just strafe everything in my La-7, Spit 9, etc. Most of the uber horde gangbanger losers fly the low ENY planes, which most of don't carry an overwhelming attack capability.

The idea of lessening the amount of fuel for an overwhelming country is good, because it actually serves the same purpose as the time limiter in between sorties. It sucks to only be able to take your La-7 to the closest gangbang at full throttle only to find out that you're nearly out of gas.

doobs · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2004, 11:05:46 AM »

Keep the dweebomatics, but disable ordinance.
Somehow I dont think that works.
Buff pilots and jabo pilots with no bombs, that will not even the numbers but lower them, when people leave.

Its been said before but the planes that get disabled have different models. Whats wrong with the p51b, spit5, la5.
It's not like planes are disabled all the time, seems to me its been very fair to all sides.

This new system seems to work

Jasta · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2004, 12:04:16 PM »

I think the simplest way to do it is to use the AW system and limit the amount of planes that can up from a Large, Medium, Small base at one time.

You spread out the fight, make it harder for the horde to solidify, and let everybody fly their own plane.

Better yet, you can still use a percentage system to keep the fights open. for instance:

(80 Rooks)
Max Large AF = 20
Max Medium AF = 13
Max Small AF = 8

(60 Bish)
Max Large AF = 30
Max Medium AF = 20
Max Small AF = 16

or something to that effect.
So even it the Rooks are pushing a small AF from a large AF, the bish can still up 16 planes to take down the max 20. I think it could work.

Buzzz · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2004, 06:14:41 PM »

Jasta... THANK YOU!

I started a thread on this same subject and it was totaly ignored. Limits on the number of planes upping from bases is the only way to ease the hoarding problem.

Hoarding = 30 players swarm up from a base. They sweep to the nearest enemy base. The defenders try and scramble a defense but every time they manage to kill one of the attackers the dead guy is back in the fight in 3 minutes. It's a losing battle from the start.

You can have the best plane in the arena and be fighting the worst planes... but if it's 5-1 odds in the worst plane's favor you will die every time. It's strictly a numbers game. Numbers can beat any plane... period.

The only use for ENY values is to turn them into points modifiers. If you kill a plane with a lower ENY than yours then you get more points. Kill one with a higher ENY value than your plane you get less points. (Well.... there is one other use for ENY. It's pretty good at making people frustrated and mad so they log off or cancel their accounts.)

Limit the number of planes that can operate from any base and hoarding will be less of a problem. IT WORKS. I have seen it work in a online flight sim with my own eyes. Why is the solution being ignored?

-Buzzz

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #14 on:** August 30, 2004, 06:46:41 PM »

Funny how everyone looks at only one side of this, and ignores what often happens when Rooks have even numbers - which is the Truce Horde.

The equation must take into account how many fields a country has and how many planes are attacking it relative to the overall odds.

Take a non-Rook example, Bish's are pushed back to their last 6 bases. As it turns out, 3 Bish squadrons all decide to sign on at this time. Now, they're getting piled on from both sides because Rook and Knight want the reset. But now they have numbers - even though they are really still outnumbered because everyone is piling on them, plus they only have a couple bases they can effectively launch from at all (probly with porked troops too).

Why should they have to try to fight back from this in Fokker Triplanes? The minute they get enough numbers to effectively push back the double assault, the perked rides start costing mega-perks and the sub-10 ENY planes get taken away from them.

Likewise, when they only have 4 airfields, you now want to limit the number of planes they can launch from these to start their counteroffensive?

Does that sound right?

Before you can even begin discussing how to penalize a side that is GAINING ADVANTAGE from numerical superiority, you first need to determine how to measure this. Just looking at which side has the most planes isn't telling the story.

The system of penalty should also be centerred back on the original borders. So the further you push into enemy territory, the harder it gets if you're relying on pure numbers alone to get the job done.