Perk system apprehension?

[Moose11]

Just out of curiousity, I know you're a new member Loyalist - plan on staying past the two week trial? Hope so - you seem like a good guy and if I remember right, you fly rook?

[Sandman_SBM]

RAM,
 Just looking at the scores, Tour 12 was a huge spike compared to the tours before it. In tours 9 thru 11, the CHOG accounted for roughly 15,000 kills. It's not on pace in tour 13 to match the 39,000 kills scored in tour 12.

          9     10      11      12      13
A6M5b     1470  1648    1295    8362    1621
Bf109F-4  436   526     450     1802    373
Bf109G-10 5292  6772    3750    6817    2460
Bf109G-2  598   632     292     1455    545
Bf109G-6  806   756     451     1512    673
C.202     156   124     88      418     129
C.205     1018  818     599     2321    653
F4U-1C    15745 15516   15513   39515   9576
F4U-1D    1520  1416    1280    11486   2388
F6F-5     0     0       0       12535   1704
Fw190A-5  2462  2560    1665    2417    1026
Fw190A-8  1817  2998    1721    2804    1001
La-5FN    1622  1963    1209    4169    1199
N1K2      9594  10915   6176    18534   6504
P-38L     2907  2636    1570    4188    1258
P-47-D25  490   748     425     1040    394
P-47-D30  1770  2553    1566    2768    977
P-51D     6164  8575    5280    12225   3265
SeaFire   0     0       0       7848    1799
Spitfire9 9008  11969   5944    10043   3561
SpitV     1536  1975    1239    4109    994
Typhoon   5194  6016    3631    4982    1635
Yak-9U    2334  3034    1818    3651    937

FWIW, I don't see any planes on pace to outshoot tour 12.

Also... the previous post was my perception. Looking at the stats, I've been killed by NiKs more than anything else.

[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 02-12-2001).]

[Loyalist]

Yep.  Actually my credit card is in the mail and should be here in a few days. I'd be happy to start paying then.  I fly Knights though (this ToD).

Sandman, if you look at those numbers, the F4UC has six thousand more kills than the others (excluding N1K).  You can yell at me for being new if you like, but those raw numbers tell their own story.



[This message has been edited by Loyalist (edited 02-12-2001).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
FWIW, I don't see any planes on pace to outshoot tour 12.

Of course. That is because 1.05 release brought here countless new users ,some of them stayed after the 2 week trial, but some of them didnt. So now there is a smaller player base and so, the ammount of total kills is less. It is completely normal that the F4U1-c wont get as much kills as in 1.05, nor the niki will, nor most of the planes wont.

BUT!...in tour 12, the Chog got 20% of the kills and the N1K2 13%. THESE % STATS ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL in tours 12 and 13.

Conclussion? the F4U1-C and N1K2 STILL claim ONE THIRD OF ALL ARENA KILLS.

Just as in tour 12.

[sling322]

Hmmm...how can you say the player base is smaller?  I havent seen anything from HTC stating that.  I think the base has grown a bit since 1.05.  But I guess that all depends on how many new guys decided to stick around.  Wouldnt that number be larger because of the changes made to the game between 1.04 and 1.05?

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by lazs:
is "dipshit" cursing?   Look.... you don't have to be karnak to figure out the things that I have laid out.   They are all quite logical and inevitable.   If some are "rewarded" for certain "styles" or behavior over others and that "reward" consists of giving them an unfair advantage.... I mean... Duh.  
lazs

Just a paranoid. Perk points are currently being awarded for a vast range of behaviors. Shooting down planes bombing targets destroying strat captureing bases.
"Players that shoot down other players will recieve an unfair advantage to contintue to do so, to the disadvatage of the players that dont like to shoot others down"
worst case is your nonsence and fear mongering have any effect on the direction of the game. But im not to worried about that.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by sling322:
Hmmm...how can you say the player base is smaller?  I havent seen anything from HTC stating that.  I think the base has grown a bit since 1.05.  But I guess that all depends on how many new guys decided to stick around.  Wouldnt that number be larger because of the changes made to the game between 1.04 and 1.05?

Tour11 was V1.04. Tour 12 was V1.05. When 1.05 appeared the server was full all day long, and in peak hours you wouldnt enter it because it was at full capacity.

Why? because loads of new users gave a try to their 2 week trial at that time. From that people some has left after their 2 weeks and some have stayed.

So the player base now is significantly bigger than in Tour11 (V1.04) but lower than in Tour12 (1.05). And so you can perfectly expect to see a lower total kills ammount.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-13-2001).]

[lazs]

geeze pongo, paranoid?  i guess in the land of the blind the one eyed man is.... paranoid?  Look, you say that a wide variety of "skills" are rewarded.  This is true as far as it goes but anyone can clearly see that skills are unevenly (unfairly) rewarded.  Time on line is rewarded also.  It's all backwards anyway.  the people who least need a perk ride will be in em.  

A for instance would be... rewarding "survival" or heavily weighing it, will cause even more timidity in the arena.   It will also make the new guy even less likely to get points and even more of a baby seal and less likely to maintain interest.   Rewarding bombing will make even more dedicated fighter pilots game the bomber game and bomb useless or riskless targets making for even less action in the game.

If they even rewarded things I like, like kills per time with no penalty for death... It would piss some people off.   Any behavior (of the countless there are) that is rewarded over any other is bogus.

And who would want to fly a perk plane anyway?   I submit it would be the same people who flew the planes that were grossly overmodeled (and perhaps later fixed)in WB.   I submit that they are not the people I want to be in a "game" with.
lazs

[Pongo]

I just dissagree. The system can be implemented to reward success in several areas of flying with out de valuing the others. Its not a competition, its an incentive system mixed in with an uber plane overuser suppression system. And I still havent seen how a guy that flys 70 hours a week gets more perk planes per flight hour than the same pilot would get for flying 10 hours a week. If it takes 9 hours of flying the way he flys to get enough perk points for an F86, then he will get a Sabre a day. Or a Sabre a week if he has a life. How in hell can it get any fairer then that?
You seem convinced also that it will be a disencentive to play.  I think that the players are a pretty competitive lot and will enjoy/be anoyed by the perk planes in the same way they are now and have been by every new plane that comes along.

[lazs]

pongo.. difference is... if you are anoyed by "any new plane that comes along" you can simply jump in that plane and blow off the steam.   In the idiotic perk system you will simply be dodging the damn things.   Challenge? maybe but I doubt it.  Most will mereley find it annoying and unfair.

As to how it can be fairly implemented.... It is allready implemented so far as awarding the stupid points.   Are you saying that it is fair and equal at this point?  You feel that bombing an undefended base should be worth 10 times as much as defeating two superior planes in air to air combat?
lazs
lazs

[Pongo]

Thats a bug Lazs It belongs in the bug forum(probably allready noted and fixed), not in the damn the whole system forum.  Maybe they will have to reset the perk points to erase all the air to air points I..Err people have accumulated using it. What ever. It does not discredit the whole system just points out that the system is developed by humans, and if you want to play AH get used to seeing bugs in the MA cause changes happpen so fast that we all regression test for HTC.
That same dynamic lets people effect the game to a much greater extent then any other game I have ever heard of. You enjoy effecting the game so why complain about one of the side effects of being able to do so?
Your just waging a spam campaign.

[lazs]

pongo i love the fact that we have the perception that we are having an affect on the sim but... I would put forth that your, rather than my posts are "spam".  

I say that the system is unworkable, clumsy and unfair and point out why.   You say... "it's a bug" and that we should just reset all the clumsy, unworkable and unfair idiotic perk points that have been gamed so far?  LOL..  So far, with the little bit of the system that has been used, it has been proven to be what I said it was/would be.  

Sure... I will wait and see and sure I will point out things as they pop up but why sit on my hands and watch it happen in the mean time?   Was it me that made the points so unfair and easy to game or was it me that pointed it out?    What "scoring system" for perk points will not allienate a large portion of flying styles... one way or the other?   That is what is unworkable.   Rewarding your style over mine may very well seem "fair" to you or vice versa but... The only really fair method is for everyone to have the same choices.
lazs