Question about gun harmonization

[GODO]

Is convergence affecting both planes, horizontal and vertical? If so, does it means that setting it as close as possible would increase noticeabily the elevation of the rounds past the GS center?

[GRUNHERZ]

As I understand it harmonizanion means that bullets will converge at the center of the gunsight at the convernge setting.

If thats true then it should mean that extreme close in harmonization should elevate the guns.

[thrila]

Wouldn't it be the other way round?

[Cobra412]

Well I don't have experience boresighting guns but I do have experience boresighting other aircraft items.  Few things I have experience in is heads up displays, LANTIRN Targeting Pods, ring laser gyro inertial navigation units, and standard gyro assemblies.

I have to adjust in both azimuth and elevation on all of my units.  I would think that the basics would cross for guns themselves.  You should be toeing it in at closer ranges and as you go further out to the last gun on that wing you may have to adjust slightly in elevation.  Obviously this depends on the wings and how they are shaped too.  Inner guns on a wing that has a lower heigth at it's fuselage would actually have to be brought up some where as the outer guns may have to be brought down some.  

It really depends on the platform.  As you set your convergance further out your going to have to make toe out and elevation adjustments to calculate for bullet drop.  Again I've never boresighted guns themselves.  But the basics should be the same.

Also many of the newer gunsights could adjust for distances and aircraft just be a turn of a dial.  A base set convergence was done.  And the lead computing sight had certain size and distance settings for aircraft and range.  Take a look at the Pony Ds sight and you'll see what I mean.  Basically you'd have the ability to adjust your sights on the fly.  

Also I thought harmonization is only for nose mounted weapons.  It's so that the guns are in harmony with the revolutions of the blades themselves.  So obviously you don't shoot out your own prop.  Granted harmonization could also be meaning that they all hit at a relative area at certain distances.

[glenmorangie]

I hate helping the opposition, but you seem like nice folks, even though you try to kill me every time you see me

Take a look here for a great explanation of convergence...

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_031a.html

[Ghosth]

Yes convergience does effect elevation.

Setting large cannons LONGER than mgs can result in both hitting at the same spot.

I think it also helps a bit in deflection shooting. Not a LOT, but a bit.

Use the .target 300  command and your favorite plane & do some experimenting.

[GODO]

Historically, some planes were able to adjust both, horizontal and vertical. Harmonization is related ONLY to the vertical plane, not horizontal (convergence is horizontal).


For example, in real life, a 190A8R1 had the horizontal convergence for gondolas set at 800m and 600m for wing root guns. But the harmonization was set to 550m for all the guns. So, vertically, all the guns were set to cross the gunsight center at 150m, from that point, the rounds were going well above the gunsight center until 375m and then going down and crossing again the gun sight center at 550m.

AH doesnt allow us to control gun harmonization, only convergence, but then 99% of the rounds fired never go above the gunsight center to fall further.

So, the real question is how manages AH gun harmonization when we can only set horizontal convergence?

[xHaMmeRx]

HERE are the results of some testing I did on various weapons.  The tests were done in AH1... don't know what, if anything, has changed, but I will get around to doing AH2 tests at some point.

Hammer
netAces.org - Tips, Tactics and More!

[xHaMmeRx]

and HERE is page on effects of convergence.

Hammer
netAces.org - Tips, Tactics and More!

[hitech]

Mandable: Can you give me your diffinition of harmonization?


HiTech

[GODO]

hitech, it is not my definition. German documents for 190A8 gun patterns show convergence range as horizontal crossover range (where the rounds cross horizontally the gun sight, and harmonization range as the point where the rounds cross vertically the gun sight going down (not the point where the rounds cross vertically the gun sight going up).

For the pair of MG131, harmonization range was set to 400m but these MGs were set parallel, so they dont converge horizontally. This way MG131 rounds reach a maximum elevation of 40cm over the gunsight center at 200m, crossing the gunsight again going down at 400m (harmonization point).

For the MG151/20, harmonization was set to 550m while convergence (horizontal crossover) was 600m for inner guns and 800m for the outer guns, well below the gunsight center in both cases.

In any case, every single round should have a range where it is flying above the gunsight center, and 2 points where the round cross it vertically.

[ra]

Isn't there a .t or .target command?  There used to be.

[GODO]

A more clear picture, this time with six 20mm guns and 2 MGs:

190A8 six guns aligtments

The picture also shows a table with the horizontal (S1, S2, S3 and S4) and vertical displacements (H1, H2, H3 and H4) of the rounds from an imaginary line along the fuselage from 0 to 100m. The horizontal distance between that line and the MG131 rounds is 13cm all the time while the elevation raises to 142cm at 100m (about 40cm above gunsight center at 100m).

[hitech]

Ok to answere your question is the convergance and harminazion are always set to the same number in AH.

HiTech

[Ghosth]

yes Ra  .target xxx where x = range in yards.

0 to make it go away.