What happened to all the good fights?

[mechanic]

is it just me, or has the 'super furball' we used to see, and some of us loved in AH1 really and truly gone for good?

i know we have been itching for some more realistic scenarios and people always whine about 'furballs getting frustrating' and 'we need to simulate air combat, not just all pile into one big mass of death'. But, now that we are seeing these phenomina less and less frequently, do we really want to continue this way??

Its a fact for me that a good one on one is the most fun i can have as far as 'edge of my seat' fighting, but i miss the 'devil may care' attitude of the super furball.

gone are the days when i could climb to 5k and shoot right into the middle of a 50+ plane pile up. i didnt always enjoy this form of playing, but i did like the option of joining a death dance in the skies, with too many planes to keep my eyes on at once.
 Granted, we would all die more often, but wouldnt we have more fun dying than just the same old alt monkeys VS TnB dweebs the whole time?

Maybe we have just lost too many players for a number of reasons (bad PCs and quiters) and therefore the numbers dont make enough for these giant maps we keep getting. So maybe we just need a small map for a week?

I dont know what the solution is, or even if there is actually something lacking, but i do know we had more chaos and mental pilots 6 months ago who were all ready to fight and die for the good of a ten minute adrenelin rush.

What do you all think?

is AH missing something in the programming and setup, or are the majority of pilots just wussies now?

still love it, still playing it. but its sure different from 6 months ago....

your opinions please.

[Karnak]

Speed has become the dominant factor in what makes a good fighter.  The gunnery change has made getting close to the target more important and speed both enables fast closure rats and the ability to gain separation in order to survive.

In AH1 it was never clear why speed was such a big deal in WWII.  In AH@, like WWII, speed is king.

[simshell]

the Hord and gangbang is what i think is making people jump into super speed machines

[mechanic]

so maybe its more realistic, but is it more fun to have this speed dominace the whole time??

am i crazy, or were the 50+ plane pile ups a shed load of fun?

[JB73]

Originally posted by Karnak
Speed has become the dominant factor in what makes a good fighter.  The gunnery change has made getting close to the target more important and speed both enables fast closure rats and the ability to gain separation in order to survive.

In AH1 it was never clear why speed was such a big deal in WWII.  In AH@, like WWII, speed is king.

actually that is very true.

havent seen anyone speak about AHII in that way, but thinking about it i have to agree totally. much more like WWII

[Widewing]

Originally posted by simshell
the Hord and gangbang is what i think is making people jump into super speed machines

Yeah, it's a vicious cycle.

I've been flying mostly BARCAP between bases lately (when I have any time to fly at all). This way I can bounce the horde rather than get caught on the deck by them. Usually take a good climber with decent guns like the 109s (with gondos, naturally), Dora or P-38.

My nephew is staying with us for his first semester at St. Jo's and he has been playing a bit..mostly doing the manned ack thing, beating up the hordes. The kid got about 100 ack kills in the last week of the August tour. He doesn't care much for flying, so he does the ack and GV game.

My regards,

Widewing

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by JB73
actually that is very true.

havent seen anyone speak about AHII in that way, but thinking about it i have to agree totally. much more like WWII

Yes, as airplanes have evolved they have transitioned from tighter turning radii to faster overall speed and acceleration. Speed gives one the ability to dictate the terms of any engagement, specifically Where,when, if, how the fight occurs. Turning radius is primarily defensive in nature and against a faster plane is good for little more than denying the opponent an immediate gunnery solution. Even during WW1 the faster planes dominated, the German planes tended to be faster and more successfull as interceptors. This carried over into WW2, where the defining characteristic of a good fighter was it's top speed at various altitudes.

Turn performance has an importance in the game that it did not have to the same extent in real life largely because there is no real death. It was widely considered that protracted turning engagements were almost tantamount to suicide. In the large scale fighter engagements that were typical in WW2 (at least two wings of fighters meetings each other typically 35+ aircraft) it was considered only a matter of time before an opportunistic opponent caught a predictably turning enemy unaware and shot him down (what we refer to as cherry picking in AH). In the Pacific theater great success was had versus the Japanese almost exclusively using superior speed to manhandle the superior turning Japanese aircraft.

Zazen

[mechanic]

all true and valid points guys, thanks for the contributions.....

But...

is it as much fun?

maybe im just a TnB spit dweeb

[AWRaid]

It's never been as much fun but I've always been more of a BnZer than TnBer. I am a control freak, I've always liked the power to choose when to fight and when I leave. Plus the helpless feeling people have vs BnZers is always fun.


My fighting style is a hybrid though, I've called it E-Fighting forever but that is really just BnZ. It's a mix of BnZ and TnB with lots of ropes.

[2shad4u]

well when your squad is on mechanic and i fly to a base that is 2k high and i fly to it 10k just to see them about 13k norm or so in their little spit5's just to be gangbanged by them............its annoying but i usually try and turnfight unless its more than one spit5....................is that all your squad is allowed to fly is spit5? they need more of a challenge:)

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by AWRaid
I've called it E-Fighting forever but that is really just BnZ. It's a mix of BnZ and TnB with lots of ropes.

If you think Energy Fighting is just Boom and Zooming you really need to do some research into fighter tactics. Start with "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manuevering", by Robert Shaw. Saying Energy Fighting is just Boom and Zooming is like saying Turn and Burn Fighting is just a hard, flat break turn to the right.

Zazen

[mechanic]

Originally posted by 2shad4u
well when your squad is on mechanic and i fly to a base that is 2k high and i fly to it 10k just to see them about 13k norm or so in their little spit5's just to be gangbanged by them............its annoying but i usually try and turnfight unless its more than one spit5....................is that all your squad is allowed to fly is spit5? they need more of a challenge:)

No they can fly what they like, there are no rules or leadership hierachy.

SpitV IS a challenge against all the high alt pony/190/etc planes.

I really think its about time the arena lost the whole spit dweeb thing. afterall, as Karnac said, the game has become dominated by speed, IE: realism to WW2. dont know if you have noticed but a spitV can only just outrun a B26!

My squad do not need to gang bang and we all fly mainly the spitV because
 A) we love it.
 B) its what the real 71 squadron flew
 C)we love it

and further more i think its more than a bit cheeky of you to say 'they need more of a challenge' considering you were a shade account vulcher yourself. was that challenging, vulching all those fake accounts?

now i like you shad but even if your comments were made in jest, they fell on un humorous eyes tonight
 Dweeb is the pilot not the plane, and my whole squad fights fair, with honour, and most importantly, without cheating to make their rank improve.

so have fun with whatever makes you happy, but dont ever critisize me or my squad for the plane we enjoy flying.

got that?






edit: maybe im over reacting here, sorry, but i hate the ignorance that condems the spitfires/LA-7s. these planes were at one point a nations pride, so why put them down because of their individual traits? if any plane is a dweeb plane its the ones suited to high alt/high speed/ high firepower. but i will not condem anyplane for its idiosyncrasies, i will only learn how best to kill one.

2shad im sorry for blowing up but that was below the belt, especially from you. and by if you mean that flying in a squadron flight of 4 or 5, and fighting as a unit is gangbanging, then i suggest you find a better squad.

[AWRaid]

I didn't say E fighting and BnZ are the exact same. If you're so schooled in the art of ACMs then please explain the difference to an ignorant dweeb like myself.

The last part of that quote wasn't regarding what E-Fighting is it was me describing my fighting style. Sorry if that is part of the confusion.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by AWRaid
I didn't say E fighting and BnZ are the exact same. If you're so schooled in the art of ACMs then please explain the difference to an ignorant dweeb like myself.

The last part of that quote wasn't regarding what E-Fighting is it was me describing my fighting style. Sorry if that is part of the confusion.

Maybe, you meant you just BnZ? But called your BnZ'ing E-fighting? I dunno, sounded to me when I first read it that you were saying Energy fighting is just BnZ'ing. My mistake if that was not what you meant, carry-on...

Zazen

[nopoop]

Mechanic I agree completely, where have they gone ??

My thesis paper for a masters degree in furball from a couple of years ago.

Fluid dynamics of a "good" furball
 
Ingrediants are dependent on arena density. That's why this crack smoker can't get a "good" fix on a Large map.

There self propagating but are dependent on chance. Arena density increases the "chance".

Along the lines of a tornado. The ingrediants have to be there, but the tornado might not appear. The way it's fed is similar.

Perfect example is the Isle map last week and the fur between A1 and A4.

A catogory 5 furball
All the ingrediants were present and it took place. Saw many a furball addict there that night

For some reason water increases the chances

Numbers have to be even, sliding back and forth but staying for the most part even.

What you end up with is a fluid front that fluctuates back and forth between bases. Outgoing planes at medium altitudes meet along the fluid front. PT boats below, Pickers coming in from both sides high being sucked down into it. Base takers continually come into the enemies base with altitude and drop in to base defenses. A "circulation" is created.

Those at the "front" are in the fur. Exits rearword are covered by incoming fighters. Exits to the sides can be used to regain altitude, but the "pickers" inhabit the sides.....waiting...

Getting too "deep" into the fur usually results in ones hair being set afire..... Safety is relatively close, but...being too deep causes the "pucker", the "edge", the nose print on the moniter..

Coming out the safe side with your hair on fire is the fix......

Screaming inches off the deck with tracers crossing your canopy, 3 or 4 in the bag, your hunched over the moniter on a furball high....Jeez the WEPs used up, missing a flap, the gear are gone, with an oil leak....Trying to get out...with a 51 closing, licking his chops sending presents your way..you scissor evade and a friendly makes him break off...

On final, the base takers are attacking, you come in hot, gently setting it oh so softly on it belly sliding down the runway scrambling for the clipboard to GET OUT BEFORE YOU DIE !!!

You made it

You take a breath..

Take off..

And do it again

Boring ???

BRUHAHAHAHAH !!

Like watching paint dry..