Author Topic: This Weeks Show  (Read 1347 times)

Offline JensK

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« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2004, 08:40:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sable
Jane's information is wrong ... that's all I'm saying.


Lol, please!! :rofl

Ehemm... ok im calm now.
Can you support this statement by any means of proof?
Else its not worth much... :rolleyes:

regards
« Last Edit: September 06, 2004, 08:46:32 AM by JensK »

Offline DJ111

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« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2004, 09:09:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
You two gonna fly again or just come back and post Hackajawa back and forth at each other like it's some sort of gay commie code?

:D




No, not coming back :p




There is no commie code in our posts!

The only commie is Arlo, he will roast in the devil's belly....and such....!
Retired CO of the ancient **Flying Monkeys** CT squadron.

Offline Oldman731

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Hey, what about the Hurri I?
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2004, 09:46:19 AM »
Appears to me that we have all the usual Finn-Rus planes except for one.

Any chance of getting the Hurri I in there on the Finn side?

- oldman

VWE

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« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2004, 10:06:38 AM »
Just take the IIc up oldman and 'imagine' your in a MkI... I'm sure you'll get your Hurricane fix in only 1 or 2 sorties. :aok

Offline Slash27

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« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2004, 11:14:34 AM »
Any chance of getting the Hurri I in there on the Finn side?


For you? No problem. :aok

Offline Squire

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« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2004, 11:18:26 AM »
Doras went into service in September of 1944, some sources say October (as above) but lets not split hairs. Close enough. Fall of 44.

Any "1943" or "January 44" info on the Dora being operational (squadron combat service) is flat out wrong, sorry. Any such dates would be for flown prototypes only. Apples and oranges. As an example the RAF had Spitfire Mk IXs flying well before July 1942, but that has nothing to do with its operational debut date, which is July 1942, not before, makes no difference what the factory at Castle Bromwhich made, or what expiramental type they were flying before that. The 1st P-51D flew in November 1943...again, thats all well and good, but has nothing to do with its intro date to combat squadrons.

...not that that matters because the Yak-9U is in there too and its the same timeframe (August 44 therebouts), give or take a month so fair is fair. Dora vs Yak-9U is a fine matchup, seems to make sense. I would maybe add the Hurricane II and the A-20 as lend lease types if they aren't in there already, just for variety.

I could see making bones about it if it was just the Yak-9T available, so as it is I dont see what the debate is over.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2004, 11:34:52 AM by Squire »
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Offline Slash27

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« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2004, 11:32:04 AM »
...not that that matters because the Yak-9U is in there too and its the same timeframe ( August 44 therebouts),

I had 3/44, I dont doubt your info though.


I would maybe add the Hurricane II and the A-20 as lend lease types if they aren't in there already, just for variety

 The A20 has been there and the Hurri IIc and "B239" was added yesterday.

Offline Squire

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« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2004, 11:41:12 AM »
I have the same Janes source, it states that the prototypes were converted to the new engine in late 1943, thats all, it gives no in service dates. Im not making any accusations here either, im just saying that those kind of dates are easily mixed up, some books give wrong dates, some give conflicting dates and some quote delivery or 1st flown dates, which are all different. Storches info is correct, for what it gives.

 As I said before, at what point the RAF put a Merlin 61 into a Mk V airframe for the 1st time (the summer of 1941), is not the in service date for the Spit IX in squadron service (summer of 1942). Thats just one ex.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2004, 12:14:45 PM by Squire »
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Offline Sable

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« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2004, 12:52:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JensK
Lol, please!! :rofl

Ehemm... ok im calm now.
Can you support this statement by any means of proof?
Else its not worth much... :rolleyes:

regards


Try Donald Caldwell's "JG26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe" or his "JG26 Pictorial History".  Caldwell did meticulous research to be able to put together a near day to day narrative of the activities of JG26, and link it with history of allied units to determine who they fought on what day.  John Weal (has written a number of books for Osprey) also puts the Dora's intro into service as fall of 1944.  Eric Brown, an RAF test pilot during the war who wrote "Duels for the Sky" and "Wings of the Luftwaffe" and test flew most all of the German aircraft, also places it as a fall entry into service.

Or look at the link I posted earlier.  It has a number of pages with orders of battle for the Luftwaffe on various dates, and the authors included their sources.

On top of that, the german test documents I've found for the 190D-9 are dated in early '45.

And "sightings" doesn't necessarily count for much.  During the Battle of Britain, British pilots claimed to have encountered and shot down He 100 fighters that were never deployed there.  When the 1st FG raided Ploesti in June of '44 they encountered a group of Romanian IAR-80s and reported them as being FW-190s.  So when Jane's puts something out saying "Allied pilots reported seeing long nose 190s in January 44" that really doesn't mean a lot to me.

Offline Oldman731

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« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2004, 07:39:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Any chance of getting the Hurri I in there on the Finn side?


For you? No problem. :aok

Thank ewe!

- oldman

Offline Rafe35

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« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2004, 10:08:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
You two gonna fly again or just come back and post Hackajawa back and forth at each other like it's some sort of gay commie code?

:D

Hello, SALLY!

Mr. Deej111 will not be back and I will be back probably around after thanksgiving or before christmas, depends how am I doing in College before final exams in December 14.  :)

Like General Douglas MacArthur said "I Shall Return" :D
Rafe35
Former member of VF-17 "Jolly Rogers"