Author Topic: Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY  (Read 8337 times)

Offline Arlo

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2004, 11:46:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ROCrats
Arlo

"Forced to chose" is not a choice, that's a requirement.


ROC ... it's the only one. Your choice. Rules existed in the game from day one. Without them .... aNaRcHy! AnArChY, I tell ya!

I'm sure there's other types of rules that could have been coded and implemented.

(ROCrats logs on)

SERVER: ROOK side at limit

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Offline Arlo

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Re: whine?
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2004, 11:48:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheflyingElk
why is it a whine fest when people are only voicing their fustration in a community forum?:(


Back atcha. Why is months of voicing an opinion about numbers disparity a whinefest? (Bear in mind I didn't complain about either ... I'm just amused at the noise level here over minor things.)

:)

Offline Hornet

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2004, 11:51:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
Hehe, precisely KillnU! They're just taking the easy way out of a losing debate with one liner responses that amount to nothing more than unfounded gross over-generalizations that turn a blind eye to anything that categorically and substantively refutes their jaded point-of-view.


Zazen

P.S We should really get our wive's together, I bet they'd become instant friends! ;)


So what exactly is the injustice being done? The ENY applies across all countries does it not?

It seems we have 2 competing arguments.

1. Learn to fight 3v1
2. Lean to fight w/o an La7

Rooks still have odds so the other 2 countries are forced to learn #1.

Since the ENY, HT has forced 1 side to learn #2. Apparently this is a grave injustice.

I'm neither for nor against the ENY, it doesn't affect me. What I find amusing is Rooks somehow manage to cobble together both a whine about losing airplanes and a message of superiority.

If I was fighting with 3v1 odds I certainly wouldn't be complaining on the BBS about losing a 51D or an La7. That's embarassing. Then to couple the admission of A/C dependence with a message of superior organization...that is what is laughable.
Hornet

Offline DoKGonZo

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2004, 11:54:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Good for you, DoK! People need to see these details of additional benefit instead of screaming how broke the system is all the time. May need a bit of teeking but .... it's bringing out some good and amazing results here. :)


Oh ... it definately needs tweeking ... that's a given. ENY should never get above 30 for starters, and once you cross 35 you take away just too many planes and it gets absurd. Detecting who is really disadvantaged also needs serious attention.

Offline Zazen13

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2004, 11:58:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hornet
a Bish friend.

rich.

:rolleyes:


I don't know GHI from a hole in the ground, he posted of his own accord independant of me. This illustrates it  isn't just a Rook problem, it effects everyone. People from every country have felt its effects and many disapprove vehemently.

Zazen
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline GuyNoir

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2004, 11:58:28 AM »
Are the numbers usually a problem or are they not?  If they're not, then the eny limiter hardly ever kicks in and you have no reason to complain.  

Sounds like a lot of people are arguing that the numbers are only getting unbalanced on Rook Sundays.  Well, the rooks usually outnumber the other sides by 2-1 on Sundays.  Are you saying that that's not a problem?

You might pay 15 bucks a month, but the guys on the other side do to and it's not fair for you to have such uneven odds (even on one day a week).  

The eny-limiter goes in effect for one reason only:  you are being unfair to the other sides.  Don't then complain about it being unfair to you.

(This's outside of the p38 problem where you only have one version of the plane to fly.  In that case, I feel for you guys.)

Remember, though, that most of the uberplanes have pretty close counterparts in their earlier-war models, so even if you don't want to switch, you can still find a comparable ride.

Offline Soulyss

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2004, 12:00:39 PM »
you people are silly.

you make me laugh.
80th FS "Headhunters"
I blame mir.

Offline ROC

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2004, 12:06:55 PM »
You can debate and try to define "why" the eny works or does not, but that is not the point.

The point is how a company responds to it's supporters.  And EA made some massive mistakes cowtowing to the "let's play nice and fair" crowd.  There is always going to be a winner and loser.  Deal with it, life sucks at times.   When "games" are built to try and even out the playing field so someones feelings don't get hurt, then they begin down a very bad and unending road.

You already have people that can't wait for the arena to be leveled out by limiting player numbers, since the eny didn't work last night.  The eny as a "concept" is the problem here, not  the eny itself.  You simply cannot please everyone, and once you start trying to then you continually have to make adjustments.  It wont end.   Limit the number of players that can log in, but then  most can play on Sunday and due to the limiter, some can't get in the arena.  There's always going to be something that can be done next to "balance" the game, what next?

Frankly, I am not speaking from simply a participant point of view, I am speaking from a builder point of view.   A small group of 7 people got together and built a game once EA took out MCO.  I build the physics model.  It's a classic car mod.  We did it for free, as a Mod on an existing game, and our first offering netted us 6,000 downloads.  Our next patch downloaded 5,000 hundred.   Our most recent release of a new full build has taken us to over 11,000 copies.

We get people all the time complaining that one car handles better, or one car is faster on the drag strip.

Our Formal Reply has been and always will be, deal with it.
Life sucks, 70 Cuda handles different than a 65 Stang or 49 Merc.  Get over it.  Never would it occur to me to adjust the physics so all the cars performed the same but "looked kewl"   Never would it occur to me to change the core foundation of my game so someone who chose to drive the 32 Coupe could keep up with a cobra for the sake of "fairness" it would Never occur to me to limit the cars on the nights when most were playing.  Good Grief, when "most" are playing that's when the best or worst advertising happens, good idea to tick people off when "most" are watching and playing.  Prime Time Negative Advertising, brilliant strategy.

What a total load of BS.   The fact of the matter is in this "game" the planes are available and we should be allowed to fly them when we get on.  I don't need to check with my schedule to make sure that other people are on at the same time, I don't want to have to make an appointment to fly so I can make sure my group can run a mission we plan with the planes we chose.

It has nothing to do with How the eny value is calculated, it is All about that there even has to Be an eny value to make a game fair!

I've been doing this a while, and have seen good products go bad by making bad game play decisions.  

The Best way to deal with complaints and whines is to simply, as a game designer, say heres the planes, heres the maps, have at it.   Once you start to "manage" gameplay then you cannot stop.
HT will spend more time on gameplay and balance than he will on new planesets, ya that's what I bargained for.


I don't log in to my recreation to be managed, I log in for my own reasons, and my own goals.  Sometimes I just have this urge to grab a plate of spaghetti, take a flock of B-17s up for a long ride and chat with some friends while I eat, or catch up on some news while I alt out towards a target.  Other times I feel like grabbing a P-38 and diving into a fight.   And then there are the times that I want to log in with the squad and try a mission that we sat down and planned out the other day.   Point is, I cannot schedule what I "feel" like doing, when I feel like doing it.  

There used to be, since Air Warrior, this ability to do what you wanted when you felt like it, as it is now, there is a single minded focus to the game that forces gameplay on someone elses rules and objectives and this I did not sign up for, and will not continue with.  

Damn shame really.  But I can see by the replies in this thread that it's ok, there's alot out there that missed this point entirely, and the game I remember was gone along time ago anyway.
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline ghi

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #113 on: September 06, 2004, 12:08:54 PM »
Zazen ,        you don't know me, but i know your 37mm flak shells, got them in my my mouth, taste bad,

Offline DoKGonZo

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #114 on: September 06, 2004, 12:11:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hornet
So what exactly is the injustice being done? The ENY applies across all countries does it not?

It seems we have 2 competing arguments.

1. Learn to fight 3v1
2. Lean to fight w/o an La7

Rooks still have odds so the other 2 countries are forced to learn #1. ...


Well ... only a couple nights a week. The rest of the week the undeclared truce seems to kick in and the other two countries enjoy superior odds without an ENY or perk penalty.

I can understand this, mind you. Someone hordes you and the natural tendency is to get even. But lets not pretend the truce isn't happening. You can just read the ebb and flow of this forum and see what gets complained about which days - or look at the bar-dar on most weeknights.


If ENY is here to stay then cap it at 30 and put in logic to better determine to whom it gets applied and when. Adding more "2nd line" Jabo planes (P-38D, P-39, P-40N, etc.) would also help ease the "pain."

Offline DoKGonZo

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #115 on: September 06, 2004, 12:19:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ROCrats
... Limit the number of players that can log in, but then  most can play on Sunday and due to the limiter, some can't get in the arena.  There's always going to be something that can be done next to "balance" the game, what next?...


If HT ever puts in code which limits the number of people who can log in based on odds, then that is a clear sign he has a massive brain aneurism.

Offline Arlo

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #116 on: September 06, 2004, 12:19:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ROCrats

The point is how a company responds to it's supporters.  And EA made some massive mistakes cowtowing to the "let's play nice and fair" crowd.  


You keep bringing this up as an example when, in fact, it's not a valid one. AW doesn't exist today because EA bought it then attempted to run roughshod over the development of AW:IV, limiting resources and imposing unrealistic deadlines. Truth be told, they bought out the competition (one that offered a viable and affordable alternative to their planned mmog WWII war line) and starved it to death ... on purpose. It had absolutely nothing to do with Kesmai customer relations (the same people ran it after the buy out). That was actually a success story in itself.

Just a head's up on red herrings and white elephants here.

Offline Arlo

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #117 on: September 06, 2004, 12:20:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
If HT ever puts in code which limits the number of people who can log in based on odds, then that is a clear sign he has a massive brain aneurism.


Ex-actly.

Offline Arlo

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #118 on: September 06, 2004, 12:24:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The rest of the week the undeclared truce seems to kick in and the other two countries enjoy superior odds without an ENY or perk penalty.

 


"Undeclared" and "seems" appear to be key words. I've never participated in or saw evidence of either at anytime. I've seen suspicion voiced of such.

Offline killnu

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Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #119 on: September 06, 2004, 12:34:21 PM »
So what exactly is the injustice being done? The ENY applies across all countries does it not?


1. Learn to fight 3v1
2. Lean to fight w/o an La7

Rooks still have odds so the other 2 countries are forced to learn #1.

Since the ENY, HT has forced 1 side to learn #2. Apparently this is a grave injustice.

I'm neither for nor against the ENY, it doesn't affect me. What I find amusing is Rooks somehow manage to cobble together both a whine about losing airplanes and a message of superiority.

If I was fighting with 3v1 odds I certainly wouldn't be complaining on the BBS about losing a 51D or an La7. That's embarassing. Then to couple the admission of A/C dependence with a message of superior organization...that is what is laughable>


again hornet, i challenge your blanket statement to find where ive whined about any of the above.  if you add a P38 to your list, then you got me.
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