Guns don't kill people, nah.

[Skuzzy]

Originally posted by Curval
Most posters, in gun threads, use the fact that I am a subject, a potential victim, or girly man because I don't own a gun.  I am a defenseless womanly human being apparently.

You guys in the US who don't own guns have the "choice" to own guns but don't.

Just how less of any of the above descriptions don't apply to you?  You have the choice but choose not to.  You are just as defenseless am I am in the face of an armed invader.

Arguing that you have the "right to defend yourself" as being a reason to own guns is strange to me given that you, and others, choose not to.

As I said before, it smacks of Stan's right to have babies.

You are working from a perspective I do not concur with.  So I really cannot answer the question.

Just because I do not own a gun does not make me defenseless.

[Curval]

Originally posted by ravells
Curval! How's it going?

bit pissed here!

When are you next over this way?

Ravs

Hey m8.


It's going good.  Just involved in another gun thread, so..same old same old.  

Dunno when I'll get there but we will all have to hook up again.  That was alot of fun.

[Curval]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
You are working from a perspective I do not concur with.  So I really cannot answer the question.

Just because I do not own a gun does not make me defenseless.

It isn't my perspective...it is lazs and Ripsnort and all the manly gun-toting men of this BBS that make those claims.  All of those accusations have been thrown at me due to the fact that I don't own a gun.

They will also disagree with you on the defenless thing.  I jokingly mentioned I have a golf club that serves as my protection.  Go have a look at all of the fun-poking that has produced since.

What is your secret...are you a ninjitsu black belt?

[Skuzzy]

Curval, people call me names all the time (part of the job).  It does not bother me.  Everyone has an opinion.

You do not wish to own a gun, then that is fine by me.

[Steve]

What is the point of standing so firmly for something that you don't chose to be a part of yourself? I don't get it.

Some people feel strongly about what our constitutioon has to say, and not just how it applies to them.  You couldn't possibly get it, unless you were an American.

[Steve]

Gixer your perspective on the U.S. is badly skewed.  Too many Clint Eastwood movies?

Growing up, I never had a house key, the door was always unlocked, unless I came home too late and my mom was making a point.  In the summer I played outside til it was time to go to bed and never had any trouble I didn't start myself.

in winter I'd  play hockey every night til they  turned out the lights (11:00).  I found plenty of trouble their as I couldn't help but go after the older(and bigger) guys for a challenge.  Still, I never managed to get kidnapped.

Nowadays, I park one of my vehicles in my driveway(own four, only three car garage) and often leave the keys in it;  not because I'm tempting fate or making a point, but because this way  I don't have to go looking for my keys all the time. I've never had any trouble.

I own guns, have all my adult life. I've never shot anyone. Maybe if you lived in Compton or somewhere similar it might be necessary to own a gun, I'm sure in some depressed areas of your country life is equally dangerous.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by Curval
You guys in the US who don't own guns have the "choice" to own guns but don't.

Just how less of any of the above descriptions don't apply to you?  You have the choice but choose not to.  You are just as defenseless am I am in the face of an armed invader.

Arguing that you have the "right to defend yourself" as being a reason to own guns is strange to me given that you, and others, choose not to.

Owning a gun might be a choice for many Americans, but that choice can be arbitarily removed just because the local police chief doesn't want to issue a license.

I would wager that a fair percentage of people that could own guns, do not own guns because of the obsticals that accompany it.

For example, many US businesses prohibit their employees from bringing guns to work. Also, just about all major sporting events and concerts prohibit guns, as do Amusement parks, carnivals, schools, nite-clubs, and other places where people gather.

All of the restrictions of where you can carry a gun make it a big deterrant to even bother sometimes. You can't leave a hand-gun unattended in a vehicle either, because if it is stolen while you are away, you can be responsible for whatever happens with it, not to mention that you will probably loose you license.

When you do carry a gun, you have to consider that it must be concealed (as to not un-duely alarm other citizens) and kept within your direct control at all times. This means having to wear a jacket or loose fitting clothes so that buldges in your clothing are not so evident. If it's a hot day and you want to wear shorts and a T-shirt, you don't have many concealment options, unless you carry a very small gun.

Considering that you may have to leave a gun at home almost all the time you are away, one has to consider how usefull would the gun be for "home defense". People living in secure apartment buildings or condos may be satisified that they are not in danger at home, so owning a gun is not necessary for them. OTOH, someone may want to have a gun for home defense, but not be able to take it with them most places and cannot leave a gun at home while they are away, because they would worry about it being stolen or tampered with by a room-mate or some other person with access to the storage location.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Steve
Nowadays, I park one of my vehicles in my driveway(own four, only three car garage) and often leave the keys in it;  not because I'm tempting fate or making a point, but because this way  I don't have to go looking for my keys all the time. I've never had any trouble.

I own guns, have all my adult life. I've never shot anyone. Maybe if you lived in Compton or somewhere similar it might be necessary to own a gun, I'm sure in some depressed areas of your country life is equally dangerous.

I can vouch for Steve here, all true.

Plus, when we go shooting in the desert, he WILL NOT shoot at an animal.

[lazs2]

curval... I think everyone here but you sees that your arguement makes no sense at all...  Many people die here from hiking, rock climbing and parachuting... I don't particularly enjoy those activities...

By your logic... I should vote to remove my fellow mans right to do those things.  I don't understand your thinking...  I believe that it is simply a very british subject kinda thing.

Americans believe in the philosophy of self reliance... they may not own guns at this time but they sure don't want the option taken from them.   How is less choice a logical way to vote?  

many Americans talk about adding on to the house or building a Hot Rod but never do it... it is the self reliance thing... maybe an illussion but at least an option till.... some frieghtened little wuss decides to take away the option.

as for you being a girly man... not owning a firearm isn't what makes you a girly man.... wishing to take other peoples rights away is what makes you a girly man.

raves..  warned you that it was pretty dry and boring.  without the sensationalism... the subject of guns is pretty straightforward and... kinda boring unless yu are into the whole thing.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Article doesn't say if he was a registered gun owner.  Bet you he wasn't.

If he wasn't, he most likely stole the gun from someone who was.

[Curval]

Originally posted by lazs2
as for you being a girly man... not owning a firearm isn't what makes you a girly man.... wishing to take other peoples rights away is what makes you a girly man.

Funny, I have repeatedly said I am not trying to take anyone's guns away, yet you keep saying I am.  By your definition above I am not a girly man...thanks for clarifying that.

...and I guess all those other references about me hiding under my bed etc. were just "talk" too...so again...thanks.

[tce2506]

Ten Really Good Reasons to Ban Guns By Bruce Gold



1.   Guns are used in self-defense over 2 million times a year.
However,  this makes the attempted crime a "non-event," which
necessarily complicates the Police investigation.  Without civilian
ownership of guns, these Police investigations would not have been
compromised. Civilians should leave crime prevention to the Police
who are properly  equipped to investigate following the crime's
completion.

2.   Some .004 % (4/1000 of 1%) of guns are used in crime each
year.  This is way too high.  All guns should be banned

3.   Guns are unnecessary.  In 98% of civilian gun Defenses, no
shot is Fired.  If you ARe not going to fire a shot, you clearly
don't need a gun.  This proves that the  guns are unnecessary.
Banning guns will prevent these unnecessary defenses.

4.   Guns cause criminal migration.  In tough gun law Washington  
[D.C.], violent  crime rates are very high.  This high crime rate is
caused by the migration of  criminals from gun havens like Virginia.
This migration is caused by the criminal's cowardly avoidance of
armed householders and concealed carry  civilians.  This criminal
migration is detrimental to helpless unarmed citizens in      no gun
areas and must be stopped.  Guns should be banned everywhere.

5.   Most gun crimes are committed by inner city gangs and drug
dealers.  These  relatively small and geographically restricted
groups consistently commit the  majority of gun crimes, which usually
peak as turf wars erupt over Drug War  changes.  The best way to
prevent this is by denying guns to all law abiding  people
everywhere.

6.   No woman needs to protect herself from rape, assault or
murder.  The  Police will  protect them by investigating the crime
after the fact.  Remember, Police paperwork is all the protection
anyone really needs.

7.   Guns owners are disrespectful of authority.  Good citizens
should completely rely  on the authorities.  A failure to do so is an
invariable sign of improper and overly  independent attitudes.
Failure to completely and absolutely trust and depend on  the
authorities is excessive democracy and sends a bad message to
children.

8.   Guns owners engaging in self-defense are taking the law into
their own hands.   This is wrong.  Only the Police and Criminals have
the right  to take the law into  their own hands.  It should be kept
out of the hands of citizens.

9.   Children and young people should remain ignorant about guns.
Real guns and  real gun knowledge dissipates the fantasies created by
violent video games and  TV.  Ignorance once lost, can never be
restored and needs to be protected. Not  to mention the lost sales of
all the violent movies, TV shows, video games and  etc!

10.   Guns reduce people's reliance on the Police and Government.
This fosters a  mistaken belief in "rights." No person has the right
to question authority.  No  person should be less then 100% dependent
on authority.  This is fundamental to  social order.  Banning guns
will help  to establish the Order the authorities want.   This is
good.

[tce2506]

Monday, October 02, 2000 6:23AM

> > > > It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now in Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent. Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent. Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!) In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.  (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned guns in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!) While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly.
 Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety
has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear your
governor or members of the state Assembly disseminating this
information. The Australian experience proves it.  Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note Americans, before it's too late!"

[tce2506]

and my personal favorite:
Gotta love those gun control advocates....


 
 Note: This is an exact replication of National
Public Radio (NPR) interview between a female
broadcaster, and US Army General Reinwald
who was about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop
visiting his military installation.

 FEMALE INTERVIEWER: "So, General Reinwald,
what things are you going to teach these young
boys when they visit your base?"

GENERAL REINWALD: "We're going to teach
them climbing, canoeing, archery, and shooting."

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: "Shooting! That's a bit
irresponsible, isn't it?"

GENERAL REINWALD: "I don't see why, they'll
be properly supervised on the rifle range."

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: "Don't you admit that
this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching
children?"

GENERAL REINWALD: "I don't see how. We will
be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they
even touch a firearm."

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: "But you're equipping
them to become violent killers."

GENERAL REINWALD: "Well, you're equipped to
be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you? "

The radio went silent and the interview
ended. And all I could think was, Go Army!

[tce2506]

and my last (unless more are requested)
Some interesting facts for you to peruse....

   HISTORY....
   ==============
 Are you considering backing gun control laws?  Do you think that
 because you may not own a gun, the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment don't matter?

 CONSIDER; In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control.  From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control.  From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935.  From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

  Guatemala established gun control in 1964.  From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970.  From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956.  From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last century.  Since we should learn  from the mistakes of history,  the next time someone talks in favor of gun control, find out which group of citizens they wish to have exterminated.

   OPINION
   Paul Harvey on Guns
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Paul Harvey's comment on Columbine High shootings:
 How can we blame it all on guns?
 For the life of me, I can't understand what could have gone wrong in Littleton, CO. If only the parents had kept their children away from the guns, we wouldn't have had such a tragedy.
 Yeah, it must have been the guns. It couldn't have been because half our children are being raised in broken homes. It couldn't have been because our children get to spend an average of 30 seconds in meaningful conversation with their parents each day. After all, we give our children quality time.
 It couldn't have been because we treat our children as pets and our pets as children.
 It couldn't have been because we place our children in day care
centers where they learn their socialization skills among their peers under the law of the jungle while employees who have no vested interest in the children look on and make sure that no blood is spilled.
It couldn't have been because we allow our children to watch, on  the average, seven hours of television a day filled with the glorification of sex and violence that isn't fit for adult consumption.
It couldn't have been because we allow our children to enter into
virtual worlds in which, to win the game, one must kill as many
opponents as possible in the most sadistic way possible.
It couldn't have been because we have sterilized and contracepted our families down to sizes so small that the children we do have are so spoiled with material things that they come to equate the receiving of the material with love.
It couldn't have been because our children, who historically have
been seen as a blessing from God, are now being viewed as either a mistake created when contraception fails or conveniences that parents try to raise in their spare time.
It couldn't have been because we give two-year prison sentences to teenagers who kill their newborns.
It couldn't have been because our school systems teach the children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial soup of mud by teaching evolution as fact and by handing out condoms as if they were candy.
It couldn't have been because we teach our children that there are no laws of morality that transcend us, that everything is relative and that actions don't have consequences.
   Nah, it must have been the guns.
        - Paul Harvey