They wanted to start a war

[NUKE]

I just watched an interview on Fox with a counter-terrorism expert.

He was saying that the terrorists may change tactics and just start killing hostages almost right away rather than make demands and wait. Local police are not trained to deal with stuff like this, and bringing in the feds takes time.

The terrorists main goal is to kill, not to bargin. I won't be suprised to see schools hit again.

The Russians did the best they could and had no other choice than to storm that school when people started to die inside.

Makes me sick to think people exist just to hate and kill.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
some....probably most...russians want revenge.  Some have been infected with liberal EU mentality that these people are freedom fighters and NOW they deserve to be listened to......plus its all putins fault.  (sound familure?)



anyhow, what's wrong with them responding in kind?  Is it worse or better than apeasing these guys?

Well, I'm sure that some of the Chechens wanted revenge for Grozny.  So does that make it okay that killed a bunch of innocent Russians?  Of course not, and it wouldn't make it okay if the Russians repsonded with arbitrary violence against innocents.  I'm surprised that you don't seem to understand that killing civilians is bad.

[Gunslinger]

the question was is it worse than apeasing......Not is it justified.

[Thrawn]

Ah.  It doesn't have to be either/or.

It's not like there isn't any middle ground between capitulating to the terrorists, and killing a bunch more Chechen kids.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Thrawn
Ah.  It doesn't have to be either/or.

It's not like there isn't any middle ground between capitulating to the terrorists, and killing a bunch more Chechen kids.

you are completly missing the point....and I'm suspecting on purpose or you're not that smart.

I'm not trying to justify killing a bunch of chechen kids.....remember chechens have allready done that to the russians.

I asking what is worse......apeasment or revenge?

Let me explain this to you so you dont miss it:

by apeasing a terrorist's demands you invite more terrorists....more demands.  All of a sudden the Arab world realizes that captrue schools full of thousands of none arab children grabs the attention of non arab cultures.

Now....on the flipside by committing the same attrocities they become no better than the arabs in the first place BUT it may prevent future attacks if it is calculated enough.

the reason I ask this is because there is no middle ground.  Once you give in it opens the flood gates.

[Thrawn]

I understand, and I'm saying luckily we don't live in a binary world that you are trying to present, so your question is moot.

Which is worse killing twin daughter number one, or twin daughter number two?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Thrawn
I understand, and I'm saying luckily we don't live in a binary world that you are trying to present, so your question is moot.

Which is worse killing twin daughter number one, or twin daughter number two?

nope wrong again.

you are saying find a middle ground with terrorists.

I am saying there is no middle ground with terrorists.

I'm pretty sure I'm right for the sake of argument.

If you apease terrorisim it means it works and invites more of it.

If you do the same things as them with no agenda (IE you're not asking for release of prisoners) you are no better than them.


Yet you say we dont live in a binary world bla bla bla........yes we do.  If you apease terrorism in any ways they win.  If you resort to their level they win.

what happens when arabs take over cottonwood elementary in Omaha Nebraska and demand all US troops out of Iraq.

Today.....it doesnt sound so unlikely

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
nope wrong again.

you are saying find a middle ground with terrorists.

No, I'm not.  I'm saying, "It's not like there isn't any middle ground between capitulating to the terrorists, and killing a bunch more Chechen kids.".


What the hell makes you think that not killing civilians has anything to do with finding a middle ground with terrorists.  The only way that is possible is if you assume that all civilians are also terrorists.  Which is patently rediculous.  

I'm saying that persecuting a war against terrorists and trying not to kill civilians aren't mutually exclusive.

[Lazerus]

It's late, I've had my share, but provide one instance where a terrorist hasn't been a muslim. I have no problem with anyone having their own religious belief, and I'm certain that not all Muslims are of the fanatical breed, but the percentages speak for themselves. I, personaly, am sick of this ****. It's time to quit *****footin around and just take out the 50 million, or whatever the number is. The world won't miss em. Unfortunately, it will take more than the US Armed forces to do it, someone needs to get the other 100,00.

[RTSigma]

To be honest, Muslim religion delcares that those who are not of Muslim faith are non-believers or 'infidels'.

Yep...we're all in trouble.

Sure there are peaceful Muslims, but what about the non-peaceful ones?

What I think is going to happen is that one side is going to suffer dramatic losses.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Lazerus
but provide one instance where a terrorist hasn't been a muslim.

...just one?  

Oklahoma City bombing.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Thrawn
...just one?  
 

Try post 9-11.

[GRUNHERZ]

Islamic extrmists did not invent terrorism, nor are they the opnly practicioners. Terrorism is a tactic and not a cause.

That said, the current war on "terrorism" is clearly a war on extremist islamic terroirists because they attacked us on 911. We just cant call it that out of political sensitivity.  If yoiu doubt that please point me to the US attacks on the IRA or the Basques or any non narcotics reklated attacks on FARC...

[Chortle]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
well considering this one was an "accident"  IE they didnt want to go in when they did.

I agree with the "take them down" attitude they've shown in the past.  It's hard to imagine a russian society as "pu$$ies but they are being infected by a European attitude of apeasment.

God forbid its my kid(s) in there but I would hope govts. "take them down" each and every time.  Eventually the act of hijacking something will seam futile when somone stops trying to apease them.

Using this logic, the Beslan horror shouldn't have happened in the first place since Putin was elected 4 years ago partly for his hard line on Chechnya. He hasn't tried to appease anyone yet this happened. Thats why the people who elected him now blame him because he said he'd solve the Chechen problem, he suggested it was within his power to do so. But he hasn't. Nothing even remotely liberal about that, he's just failed to deliver his side of the contract. Democracy in action, what a wonderful thing.

You’ll have to explain to me how killing someone who WANTS to die and become a martyr is a deterrent, and stops others who share the same belief doing a similar kind of thing in 6 months. Because that's what we all want right?, to eventually stop this kind of thing happening ever again, wherever in the world.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Chortle
Using this logic, the Beslan horror shouldn't have happened in the first place since Putin was elected 4 years ago partly for his hard line on Chechnya. He hasn't tried to appease anyone yet this happened. Thats why the people who elected him now blame him because he said he'd solve the Chechen problem, he suggested it was within his power to do so. But he hasn't. Nothing even remotely liberal about that, he's just failed to deliver his side of the contract. Democracy in action, what a wonderful thing.

You’ll have to explain to me how killing someone who WANTS to die and become a martyr is a deterrent, and stops others who share the same belief doing a similar kind of thing in 6 months. Because that's what we all want right?, to eventually stop this kind of thing happening ever again, wherever in the world.

I dont see it that way.  You can take a hard line on this and still have it happen.

Read some of the articles in othre threads about this and his political oponents going after him.  Its sickening.