Author Topic: Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)  (Read 4247 times)

Offline ghostdancer

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7562
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2004, 06:17:26 AM »
Very well put Kurt (Btw back from the Hurricane).

I agree that in all games that allows you to choose your side you will never find balance. It did not happen in AW, WB, and has not happened in WWIIonline where there are only two sides.

There will always be a side with more and side with less. Most nights except for sunday the sides are relatively close and the worst of that happens with the ENY thing is that the top planes are turned off.

However, I think the new ideas are going a little bit too far. We already have:

  • Reduce cost of perk planes
  • Restriction of ENY planes as the the number spread increases
  • FHs, BHs, VH at fields rebuild in 15 minutes
  • Barracks stay down for 2 hours and can be killed by 1 250 lb bomb.
  • Fuel being harden (or the fuel damage forumula changed) so that it can't be taken down under 75%.


And now you want to add on an increasing ack lethality and building toughness. It is already incredibly difficult to wage an offensive operation put these two in place and you make it more difficult.

And yes, I know there are those who say that this is a flight sim and it is all about dog fighting. Well gentlemen there has never been a case except in World War I that it was purely about dog fighting. Air power and air craft were always used and are still used in conjunction of waging war and either seizing territory, denying the enemy from seizing territory or attacking tactical and strategic targets and infrastructure.

Without a purpose of focus basically you are left with just furballing. Yes, its fun but after a while without a purpose for squad operations the game becomes stale and pointless. Remember even in FPS there is capture the flag (which basically the base capture and reset here is a much expanded version of) and they too have goals (most kills in a set period of time wins).

Basically I these tweaks are more and more removing the focus of the game. I do not believe they are encouraging side balancing. And as I have said and have shown by tracking before most nights you don't have a huge imbalance. On sundays you do.

For the simple reason that many squads and many people have sunday night as their squad night. Friday nights quite a few don't fly because of other events like FSO. Plus Friday and Saturday night wives and girlfriends want to do things .. sunday night is clear for many of us logging on and spending 3 hours flying.

Also stop and think for a second. The bishops and knights are able to field 15-170 pilots at times on weeknights. On sunday they don't .. on monday they do. Its a conscious decision to avoid sundays. Programming code will not change this in a major way. You are dealing with human behavior here and can not program people to behave differently.

You can however, keep putting things in place that will end up driving people away from the game.
X.O. 29th TFT, "We Move Mountains"
CM Terrain Team

Offline SCDR

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 199
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2004, 06:24:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by jetb123
I am starting to say this to. If I am goign to pay 1k+ on a game. atleast he can do is upp the graphs somehow fix the bugs. I have no heart for the guys who computers cant handle it. Hey I paid money why cant you. And I am 16!. Still going to school.:eek:

Ahh yes, to be 16 with no wife or kids AND no bills.:D
You still live with your parent(s), you have no bills. Think it
thru.
Dude, ya gotta look at the big picture not just a few pixles.


SCDR

Offline Gixer

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2004, 06:25:44 AM »
Sounds like I'm not missing much these days.




...-Gixer

Offline Jackal1

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9092
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2004, 06:44:35 AM »
<------Gives up and starts sleeping in the hip waders. Too much trouble taking em off and on.
Sidenote: HT , please do not harden targets any further. Were in the Twilight Zone now IMO.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline Dawggus

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
      • http://www.nightmares.org
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2004, 07:01:02 AM »
Well, two Nightmares have quit since Sunday when the ENY values got up around 30.  Not good!  Our private forum banter is reminiscent of those dark days in 2001 when we rode the Air Warrior ship into the murky depths.  There is one difference here.  Air Warrior was a throw-away for EA, they didn't have a vested interest, and didn't depend on this game exclusively.  HiTech does, and he will address these issues :).

Cya Up!

Dawg

Offline Chortle

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 419
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2004, 07:07:34 AM »
After thinking about it, your right, HT is coding for the unskilled. I originally thought this idea was absurd but now I see I was wrong.

HT is giving incentives for players to change to the underdogs, which by all accounts is how Rooks acquired their superb range of skills from above average teamwork and communications right through to their superb SA and gunnery skills. So instead of just flying around in a big unskilled blob, players are being encouraged to develop their skills with the underdogs.

If they decline this invitation, they and 150 of their  like minded chums find they cant fly the 1945 wonder planes which can just climb or run away if they find themselves in trouble. They now have to learn new skills and adapt to flying planes that aren’t at the pinnacle of 1945 engineering.

Alternatively, this might  be all wrong, and that HT thinks games are more fun with even numbers.

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2004, 07:50:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Octavius
Sorry Kurt, I have to disagree.  Not the content, but how it was written.  I guess I'm a minority...  

Maybe. Maybe not. ;)

Offline KurtVW

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2004, 07:53:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ghostdancer

And yes, I know there are those who say that this is a flight sim and it is all about dog fighting. Well gentlemen there has never been a case except in World War I that it was purely about dog fighting.


Actually strategic bombing got its start in WWI.  Its a pretty long strech to say it was a pure dogfight environment.  The Germans dropped a lot of little bombs on London in the late years of that war and the British paid them back in kind.

In WWI, the Germans developed the doctrine of bombing civilian targets instead of military ones because it had a greater effect on Allied morale.  And before you say "Oh those dastardly Germans", let me remind you that the Brits were also impressed with the results and adoped the same tactics.  Tactics that would be perfected in the next war and lead to a sky full of B17 over many German cities 25 years later in WWII.

The bombs of the day were wildly inaccurate, and rather small.  They really didn't get a high casualty count.  But the psychological effect was huge.  The German Zepplins could fly safely at night, but the British fighters could not.  The Zepplins came in under darkness and terrified the British civilians with these bombs.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 08:14:04 AM by KurtVW »

Offline Redd

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1316
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2004, 07:58:27 AM »
quote:Originally posted by Octavius
    Sorry Kurt, I have to disagree. Not the content, but how it was written. I guess I'm a minority...




Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Maybe. Maybe not. ;)



I found it was kind of patronising, but maybe that's just me also

"step away from the Keyboard Hitech ,  stop that tinkering"

sheesh
I come from a land downunder

Offline SlapShot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9121
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2004, 07:58:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
In advance I would just like to say the following mini-essay I am writing on 'Natural Balance' is all Kurt's fault! All my friends know not to start talking philosophy with me because they have to slap me to shut me up. ;)


What is Nature? Nature is the sum of all the parts of the universe. Nature is not divisable, nature cannot be observed piece-meal one part totally independant of another, quantum physics teaches us this. The behavior of a sub-atomic particle is sympathetically reactive to the prescence of all other particles and the various fields of energy extending around them. Not only that, but if you were to truly isolate a sub-atmoic particle you still could not observe it in its 'true' state, the mere prescence of the observer alters its properties and behavior.

This is how nature works microcosmically. Nature obeys laws that pervade every facet of its manifestation. Evidence of this is found on the macrocosmic level. There is remarkable similiarity between the behavior of galaxies, solar systems and atoms. The reasons are obvious, they are all acted upon by the same fields of force (gravity, weak and strong electrical force, and magnetic fields). Einstein believed in the Unified field theory a theory that would reconcile these forces into one all pervasive force that could predict the behavior of everything in the known universe from super-string formations of galaxies to the tiniest sub-atomic particle. I also believe this exists, but we're missing a 5th field of force that is hitherto unknown, or I should more correctly say, un-quantified.

How does this effect Aces High? Well, suprisingly the answer is quite simple. Aces High is a contrivance borne by technology and innovation. The program has no dynamic nature in and of itself. The program can be perfect in every way, no bugs, everything modelled completely true to the laws of physics and operate at maximum temporal efficiency (no server/client lag). However, add human beings to the program and immediately, the ability to predict outcomes is annhialated. Humans, like the program and everything else in the physical universe are bound by laws. Human Nature, on an individual level is HIGHLY unpredicatable, no two humans perceive the exact same event in the exact same way, ever! How can this be? It happens because there is no true objectivity. Like the isloated sub-atomic particle that behaves differently just because it is being observed, humans behave differently because of one main factor, memory. Memory is a function of evolution that allows us to learn from mistakes, this enhances survival. Memory as it relates to experience super-imposes itself upon all sensory information cataloguing it and cross-referencing it, comparing it in a relative, not objective way to the memories of similiar past experiences. This is just how the mind works, it's by it's very nature biased and prejudiced by everything it has ever or will ever come in contact with.

Because of this phenomena of the mind there is a problem when we try to adapt methods that on the surface seem as though they should have a predictable influence on humans and their human nature. No two humans will be influenced in the same way. No two humans will perceive the 'method' in the same way. It's just not possible to come up with any kind of 'modifer' for human nature that will work predictably or universally. Nature is dynamic, constantly evolving, adapting, and growing more complex with every supernova and human experience. Any kind of static equation, formula, or hard-coded algorythm that is designed to modify human nature in some way is doomed to failure. Why? Because no sooner has the equation, formula or code been devised it is obsolete as the parameters of its design are inflexible and not dynamic whereas the subject of its operation is.

Nature and Human nature are in constant flux, they only remain quantifiable if viewed as a whole, interdependant and inter-related. There is a connected-ness of all things. Any attempt to compartmentalize, dissect, or otherwise isolate one facet of nature or human nature destroys the essence of it, it becomes "dead'. Nature and human nature that is "dead' takes the form of thought and memories in the human mind. They have no intrinsic reality unto themselves, they are only mental signposts that point to a bygone reality, a snapshot of reality.

In Aces High, there can never be any truly successfull method for dealing with the proclivities, whims, and desires of human's nature. There really shouldn't be any reason to try. Human nature like all things in nature must be in balance. In physics and chemisty this is known as, "The Laws of Conservation of Mass and Energy". In the human sphere, wether we know it or not, we are all at least unconsciously altruistic. The amusing thing is that simply by being selfish consciously we can be altuistic inadvertantly and unconsciously. I will give an example of this as it pertains to the game. Say player X is a Bishop, he enjoys being a Bishop because all of his friends are Bishops until one day the Bishops outnumber the other two by a large margin. Player X has a problem, he cannot score any kills, there are not enough of the enemy to satiate every Bishop's desire to score kills. Being a typical self-serving person he says good-bye to his Bishop friends and switches to Knights. Unbeknownst to him 50 other Bishops have done the same selfish thing for the same selfish reasons, all independant of one another. Suddenly, the numbers become balanced again and everyone has the same opportunity to score kills. The other two countries benefitted from 50 Bishop players acting in a totally selfish, self-serving way, unconscious altruism in action, the subtle balancing act of nature manifested in human nature.

I cannot explain to you why or even the particulars of how the arena will become naturally balanced without interference. But, I know nature, I know human nature, they are inescapable. Balance is the only reason the universe doesn't collapse in on itself and annhilate everything. Everything in nature seeks to be in a state of balance, even humans, whether they consciously 'know' it or not. You just have to have faith, patience  and trust in nature.

Zazen


SLAP !!! ... SLAP !!! ... now SHUT UP !!!
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline Redd

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1316
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2004, 07:59:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
SLAP !!! ... SLAP !!! ... now SHUT UP !!!




lol , least I found my cure for insomnia , got 1/4 the way through that
I come from a land downunder

Offline Dead Man Flying

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6301
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2004, 08:02:34 AM »
I can't speak for HTC, but if this were my company and someone posted what KurtVW just did, I'd find it insulting and condescending.

Just saying.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Morpheus

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10149
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2004, 08:04:44 AM »
Good stuff Kurt.

I hope they read it.
If you don't receive Jesus Christ, you don't receive the gift of righteousness.

Offline Chortle

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 419
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2004, 08:08:09 AM »
lol Redd - I got as far as 'What is nature?' and suddenly lost the will to live.

Offline Redd

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1316
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2004, 08:13:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chortle
lol Redd - I got as far as 'What is nature?' and suddenly lost the will to live.



Zaz writes books for his own pleasure , I think he should publish them and rid the world of the terrible abuse of prescription sleeping pills.

Doctor to patient " Read these two books and call me in the morning"   ;)
I come from a land downunder