Note to Hightech

[Ohio330]

This is an addendum note to KurtVW's post about not
changing this game.  I totally agree with what he has to say about the fact that you are probably making a lot of the veterans
angry.  I want to say that, as a newbie, I am not pleased at all
as well.  Before you made the changes, I was part of that
rook horde.  I found safety in numbers in order to learn this
game.  As it stands now, I cannot find myself learning anything
but defensive moves.
    This post is not a whine.  I would like to suggest you do the following in order to appease both veterans and newbs alike.
Put the present MA back to its original configuration.  Create
a new arena for newbs only (say..accounts with less than
a years time on them)
     I came very close to cancelling my account last night because
I'm tired of being "lunch" for the vets.  I came to a realization
last night that since I've started this account, I :
   A: Walk away angry
   B: Have destroyed the lift tabs on my keyboard
   C: Realized I'm the sap for actually paying someone
       to get me angry
   D: Seriously have considered buying new equipment
        to increase preformance of a game that makes me
        angry

     I must admit that, yes, I tend to have a short fuze while
playing, but I'm sure a lot of us newbs have considered
leaving because death "just sucks".
    Please make us an arena..  thank you.

    Oh ya,  I only say to put the MA back to it's orig. config.
because I would gather that the imb alance was probably caused
by other newbs like me looking for saefty in numbers.  I could be
wrong here, but I have noticed a lot of my vet squadies actually
LOOKING to be outnumbered..then they go out and come back with 6 or so kills.  If you had a newb arena, us ppl looking for
safety would be gone and most probably balance things out.

[Shane]

and what do you learn, as a noob, flying in the horde? this is exactly part of the problem. noobs fly in the horde, then they get comfy in it, and then locked into it because to actually get better they have to put their fragile egos on the line and take risks, possibly dying and screwing up their precious internalization of how good they've gotten in the horde.

wouldn't you learn faster by flying as hard as you can, pushing the envelop in various planes, dying many times in the process? not only does this help you learn the planes, it also develops your SA.

once you get good, then you move onto squad "tactics" - something that is really lacking in AH for the most part, other than a "let's all up here and go take base XXX, hopefully only 1 or 2 will defend it and we can vulch them repeatedly as we take the base. my, aren't we 9 guys so awesome?"

you can learn the bombing stuff offlilne...

what is it these days? when i first got into flight sims, i took my lumps repeatedly, as a result i got as good as i am now.
it was a simple matter to learn the bombing stuff. buildings don't move.

not directed at *you* ohio, but at noobs and so-called "vets" in general. "vets" have been very poor role models for you noobs, teaching you all sorts of lazy and shoddy habits because they've locked themselves into their little boxes.

[SlapShot]

Perfectly put Shane.

[DipStick]

Right on Shane.

[Engine]

I KILLED ALL THEIR BUILDINGS BUT THEY'RE STILL FLYING WHAT DO I DO?!!?

[Ohio330]

It's ironic that you Shane, and Slapshot, had replied to this post.
You two are what I would classify as the two hardest engagements I have run across.  You guys kick ass.
I have tangled with both of you once, and I remember
exactly how things went in them, never lost you in my
sights, but yet after approx. 3 turns I was toast.  I can
say for sure that neither engagement has either of you
"jumped" me without me knowing about it.  Both started off
as a fair merge.  Being a noob, I cannot say that I "learned"
anything from these engagements except that I turned, you
turned, I died.
     I am also not saying, by making a noob arena, that I
would completely avoid the MA.  This is supposed to be "fun",
and it presently is not..  I think playing with people within
my skill level would be more "fun".

[Flayed1]

I've been a bish the entire time I've playd AH (for about 2 years) Has it really been that long already??  
 Any way the times I remember seeing fellow bish jump sides the most is usually after being steam rolled by rooks for 2 to 3 resets and right befor that 3rd or 4th reset  they jump to rook probably beacause they get tired of losing.
 And don't give me the Bish just don't work togeather speach I know there are some bish that just wanna do their own thing but I'll bet that go's for all 3 sides.
  I fly with the BOPs and we work togeather alot within the squad as well a cooping with other squads but from what I've seen It dosn't matter much how well you work togeather taking bases and defending them if you just don't have the man power to do both at the same time.
 My advice for newbs is rather than switch sides to find safty in #s find a sizeable squad to try flying with, like the BOPs for example you don't have to join the squad to fly with us and there are usually a good # of us on at any given time and as far as I know we are all willing to help a new player.
 I'm sure this would go for most squads  in Bishland and Knitland am I right guys?
  Sorry Rooks not to leave you out you guys probablly have great squads too but I just don't see you needing the help at the moment.

 Anyway thats my take on the situation.

[bozon]

Ohio,
The single players (not in squadrons) including the newbies are the exact target of this ENY thing.

Anyone, interested in safty can find it either in numbers or in super planes. With the ENY system, if the areana is imballanced enough, you have safty in each country - one of the flock and one in the stock. The single players are the ones who will find it easier to switch sides. switching a 20-30 players squadron is not done on a moments notice.

If the imballance is a steady thing, squadron will rotate too.

Bozon

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Ohio330
It's ironic that you Shane, and Slapshot, had replied to this post.
You two are what I would classify as the two hardest engagements I have run across.  You guys kick ass.
I have tangled with both of you once, and I remember
exactly how things went in them, never lost you in my
sights, but yet after approx. 3 turns I was toast.  I can
say for sure that neither engagement has either of you
"jumped" me without me knowing about it.  Both started off
as a fair merge.  Being a noob, I cannot say that I "learned"
anything from these engagements except that I turned, you
turned, I died.
     I am also not saying, by making a noob arena, that I
would completely avoid the MA.  This is supposed to be "fun",
and it presently is not..  I think playing with people within
my skill level would be more "fun".

Thanks for the compliment. I can't speak for Shane, but he did allude to it in his post ...

I have paid dearly to get to the skill level that I am at and I still have a long way to go.

To get to the level that I have achieved, I have died many many many times.

I have fought the best and have died many many many times.

I have watched many many many films of guys like AKAK, Leviathn, Shane and Drex over and over again.

I have read many articles on virtual dogfighting (Andy Bush).

It's a long row to hoe ... but the more I died, the more determined I became not to die.

If one does not engage and fight, then one will not get better.

It's the losses that make one better, more so than the wins. If and when you lose, sit back and think about what just happened and what did you do wrong, or what did your opponent do right.

Once you think you have figured it out, then you might know what to do right next time or what not to do wrong next time.

If you ever see Shane in the MA, ask him to go to the DA with you. He is an excellent teacher. If he says NO then call him a no-skilled dweeb after he kills you ... that will get him into the DA.

[jamusta]

Ohio,

I have been playing this game for about 4 years. I still take a beating and I am still learning. Its a game. Yes I get mad but only when the gamey tactics come in to play. Instead of getting mad about being shot down try to learn from it. Film your sorties to see how you got shot down and try to adjust. Flying in a horde will only bring a false confidence in your skills. What happens when you realize after playing a few years that you cant win a 1v1 engagement?

[phookat]

Originally posted by Ohio330
Being a noob, I cannot say that I "learned" anything from these engagements except that I turned, you
turned, I died.

Obviously there's something more to it that that, otherwise why do you keep dying?  You will only learn if you let yourself learn.  That means thinking about what you did wrong, asking them what they did right etc.  

You won't learn anything killing newbs, whether you want to learn or not.

Learning requires failure, but failure doesn't imply learning.


Anyway, as far as the original subject of your post...  Even if your team doesn't have more numbers overall, you can make sure to take off with a bunch of greens around you if that's what you like.  There's certainly no shortage of hordes, numbers or not.

[Ohio330]

Originally posted by jamusta
Ohio,

I have been playing this game for about 4 years. I still take a beating and I am still learning. Its a game. Yes I get mad but only when the gamey tactics come in to play. Instead of getting mad about being shot down try to learn from it. Film your sorties to see how you got shot down and try to adjust. Flying in a horde will only bring a false confidence in your skills. What happens when you realize after playing a few years that you cant win a 1v1 engagement?

     Like I said, I am not planning on avoiding the MA all together.
I would return to it to attempt to learn from the harder guys.
All Im asking is for a place to actually have fun, not neccessarily
learning... an alternative to the constant beating.
    As it stands now, I'll use the analogy of a pro football team.
I have never played organized football.  Say one day
a pro football coach comes up to me and tells me that if I pay $14.95/mo. he will start me in the Center position for every game.
I jump in and constantly get plowed on my back by a 400lb. guy.
I keep getting back up and jump back in to repeat same.   After
a bit I say to myself, WTF am I doing in this league at this point, this is no fun.
    I know that it takes time to learn..a lot of time.  I just want an alternative arena to go to when the bruises get bad.

[moot]

you are mad because of your apparently faulty learning process, which is your responsibility.

Figure out the actual rules of the game you're trying to win (I assume), and from there you can start a reliable foundation to your way up the learning curve; it'll avoid you being misled, e.g. being discouraged etc.
i.e. if you're surprised about anything, odds are you have('had' once you smarten up) wrong expectations.

The football analogy is good except this game gives you no pain, no real penalty. Everything is as good a learning opportunity as you make it.  You can lawdart and stuff good setups and have your plane splattered every which way and there is no penalty except another climbout.

When I started, in H2H 24/7 furballs, I always picked the bad odds to accelerate improvement.

[Horn]

Originally posted by Ohio330
Like I said, I am not planning on avoiding the MA all together.
I would return to it to attempt to learn from the harder guys.
All Im asking is for a place to actually have fun, not neccessarily
learning... an alternative to the constant beating.
    As it stands now, I'll use the analogy of a pro football team.
I have never played organized football.  Say one day
a pro football coach comes up to me and tells me that if I pay $14.95/mo. he will start me in the Center position for every game.
I jump in and constantly get plowed on my back by a 400lb. guy.
I keep getting back up and jump back in to repeat same.   After
a bit I say to myself, WTF am I doing in this league at this point, this is no fun.

The dictionary is the only place where success comes before work.

[Edbert]

I wonder how many players the community has lost over the years due to the steep learning curve? Not just AH, but AW, WW2OL and WB too. I don't think FA lost many since there's hardly any curve at all over there.

Over the years I have talked about 8 people into trying both WB and AH. None of them have active accounts today. When I first came into MMOL air-combat games (December 1995) the thorough thrashing I recieved only hardenned my will to keep trying to get my K to D up to 1:1, and that was in the days of a $200/month bill for arena time.

I'm not sure about the combination of interests, personality, lifestyle, and just plain old stubborness it takes to make someone get over that steep curve and become a longtime member of the community. But all of us in said community have an interest in making that curve easier to get over.