Note to Hightech

[Ironblade]

Salute All

original post by Shane:

once you get good, then you move onto squad "tactics" - something that is really lacking in AH for the most part, other than a "let's all up here and go take base XXX, hopefully only 1 or 2 will defend it and we can vulch them repeatedly as we take the base. my, aren't we 9 guys so awesome?"

Question :
Can you tell me how to properlly Take a base in accordance with fair play or furball guidlines? no one has ever explained it to me My empression was to knock out fighter hangers, cap base ,destroy town and drop troops which would probably take at least 9 guys?
but with new suggestions of hardning of buildings this will probably take a massive Horde...lol
 Thanks Guys!:aok

[Elfie]

When I first started in Flight Sims (AirWarrior) the Campaigns were 3 weeks long. I died over 1000 times and got 9 kills my first camp. I have no idea why I stuck it out, but I did and I eventually started getting better. The last campaign I flew I had 1200 kills in 3 weeks.

I am not nearly as lethal in AH as I was in AirWarrior (yet) but I keep working on it.

If you really want to be good, stay in the MA, get some vets to help you with basic ACM and practice practice practice.

I agree with Furious, the learning process never ends and thats a big part of the attraction.

[jaxxo]

phookat what's your old handle? I fought ya last night ..was fun..i know u aint a noob lol.

[phookat]

Hey jaxxo...  yeah, I used to be lost.   bro was fun.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Ironblade
Salute All

original post by Shane:

once you get good, then you move onto squad "tactics" - something that is really lacking in AH for the most part, other than a "let's all up here and go take base XXX, hopefully only 1 or 2 will defend it and we can vulch them repeatedly as we take the base. my, aren't we 9 guys so awesome?"

Question :
Can you tell me how to properlly Take a base in accordance with fair play or furball guidlines? no one has ever explained it to me My empression was to knock out fighter hangers, cap base ,destroy town and drop troops which would probably take at least 9 guys?
but with new suggestions of hardning of buildings this will probably take a massive Horde...lol
 Thanks Guys!:aok

Let me see ...

2 goons
3 bomber formations (take down the town)
6 heavy JABOs (rockets and bombs) (take down the VH and clean up town - help deack and cap field)
6 fighters (deack field and cap and clean up town if needed)

Total of 17 ... not what I would call a horde.

[BigR]

When you die to someone good, and you don’t know how they did it...ask them what they did. Most of the time they are going to help you out. If not right then, maybe later. You will never learn anything by repeatedly dying to someone unless you ask questions, read articles people have posted and watch film. There are tons of great articles out there...not just for AH but from Airwarrior. In fact most of the good ACM articles and discussions come from AW. Flying in the horde is not going to help you at all as far as skill is concerned. It might keep you alive longer, but you won’t be learning anything.

[NoBaddy]

DAMN!!! This supposed to be about learning??? Oh well...prolly explains my current suckage...I have just been having fun.

[Octavius]

I totally agree with what he has to say about the fact that you are probably making a lot of the veterans
angry. I want to say that, as a newbie, I am not pleased at all
as well.

I just want to reply to this little snippet.  

As a newbie, what do you have in terms of past experience, for comparison?  I think, as a newbie, you have every right to offer your observations, but to come in here and make bold statements like that is way off base.   I am a vet, and the only anger I have is directed at the loud and obnoxious portions of this community.  They are a stain.   (not you)

If you consider yourself a vet, and you're angry at any changes, then you're probably lying about the 'vet' tag.

Shane:  not directed at *you* ohio, but at noobs and so-called "vets" in general. "vets" have been very poor role models for you noobs, teaching you all sorts of lazy and shoddy habits because they've locked themselves into their little boxes.

Dammit I couldn't agree more.  I was just about to make a long winded thread entitled "Is it our fault?".  Yes, it is our fault.  A different kind of playerbase took over.  We had an 'unwritten book', something there to guide the noobs, shape htem into fighters.  

Then the newguys watching Discovery Wings came in, had NO clue how a game like this operates, and took what they saw at face value.  They had NO idea that a community existed, that the art of the dogfight was indeed an art never mastered or perfected.  They saw a hangar, some bombs, and a few toolsheds to blow up... they thought "Damn I'm good."  

Many of the true vets have since moved on.  I rarely see an old face these days.  The gaps left by those players were filled with the new guys and they wrote their own unwritten book.  It's wrong.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Ohio330
It's ironic that you Shane, and Slapshot, had replied to this post.
You two are what I would classify as the two hardest engagements I have run across.  You guys kick ass.
I have tangled with both of you once, and I remember
exactly how things went in them, never lost you in my
sights, but yet after approx. 3 turns I was toast.  I can
say for sure that neither engagement has either of you
"jumped" me without me knowing about it.  Both started off
as a fair merge.  Being a noob, I cannot say that I "learned"
anything from these engagements except that I turned, you
turned, I died.
     I am also not saying, by making a noob arena, that I
would completely avoid the MA.  This is supposed to be "fun",
and it presently is not..  I think playing with people within
my skill level would be more "fun".

At this point, you should reach out to the veterans in the community and ask for training.  Shane is one of the more helpful in this area and will always go to the DA if someone asks for some help.  

The only way to get better is to make an effort at it.  


ack-ack

[Octavius]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
At this point, you should reach out to the veterans in the community and ask for training.  Shane is one of the more helpful in this area and will always go to the DA if someone asks for some help.  

The only way to get better is to make an effort at it.  


ack-ack

The new crowd takes the path of least resistance.  Inanimate objects put up less of a fight than I do  I think *we* should be reaching out to the newguys, too.  :/

[flyingaround]

Many, many moons ago I was in the same position as you are now (we all still are in one way or another) and was flying AirWarrior on AOL.  

I lucked out by joining a GREAT squad (after my first tour initiation, had to reach a certain score in one campaign, and this I accomplished my FIRST tour, after untold hours of reading, and practice) called the WidowMakers.  The squad was full of many so called "vets" who would spend many an hour (MANY an hour) handing me my 'arse teaching me skills that I still use today.  

I recall one night taking off again and again to fight one of my squaddies who was flying a p-38 (Goose if I recall, possibly GMM1).  I was amazed that I couldn't even get a decent shot off on 'em, even though I was flying a spitIX, and thought it the superior of the two planes.  After probably two dozen deaths, (i never DID kill him) I had to re-evaluate what I was doing, and studied that film over and over offline.  It made me better.

We had a GREAT female pilot in the squad named Yuri, and I only had the plesure of killing her twice in the two years I flew with her.  She would take many of us "nwbies" and vets also if I recall correctly, and we would train for hours on end, then all would meet up in the WM Chat room and discuss what we had just trained on/learned.  The night when Yuri and another squaddie (Desslock I think, +WM32) jumped me with alt and I BEAT them in a 2 on 1 I had really thought I had finally "arrived".  

One of the ways I would learn would be by switching sides, and fighting these "uber" pilots we had in the squad, and getting my butt shot down over and over.  Consider it a challenge, and when they kill you quick, ask them how they did it, or film it.  You will not learn much flying in a horde, and surrounding yourself with other "new" pilots.

About a year ago (maybe more) I attacked Shane from a position of strength, I had the better turning plane and I had alt.  I boomed in, and after a beautiful merge on his part, I was shot down QUICK.  I upped again, attacked again, and was killed again, same move.  I asked him HOW he did it, and asked nicely if he would let me flim mergin' on him w/ guns off.  He LET me (I was shocked, at the time I had thought him a bully/meanie from all his trash talk) and I flimed the merge from 2-3 diff attack angles (fast, slow, etc.) and thanked him for letting me film it all.  After maybe 6 fights, I finally killed him, gave him a and I immediately logged to  watch the film.  After viewing it  10 times, and lots of wiggling of my hands (ended up usin' empty cig packs) to try and figure out WHAT he had done, and WHY it worked, I figured out the move.

I still use a variant of that merge to this day (mine's a bit more timid, but basically just as good imho) and I give much respect to Shane for his helping me out.

You might consider asking one of the "vets" to allow you to .join them during one of their sorties, and SEE how they are doing what they do.  If you are in a squad of only "new" pilots, I would consider looking for another squad that has member that can teach you.  The suggestion to move from the country with #'s is a good one, as you won't learn much gangbanging in a 10 on 2.  Spend some time in the TA, or Dueling Arena, and ask lot's of questions.

Give it at least six months.  Half the fun (heck, more than half) is clawing your way to the top.  I've been on AH now for two years, and consider myself "good", but I can think of a dozen that are "better".  It wasn't easy getting here, but I had a GREAT time learning.  I now can fly my 110 o' death (the main ride I picked for this tour) and take much joy in killing spitfires in stall fights.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Octavius

Many of the true vets have since moved on.  I rarely see an old face these days.  The gaps left by those players were filled with the new guys and they wrote their own unwritten book.  It's wrong.

Why do I get the feeling that they are still here but they fly under a different name?  In AHI when I went down, 9 out of 10 times I knew the person who killed me.  Since AHII however, I've had my arse handed to me by too many people I never encountered before.  Playing for 2 years and all of a shuden I can't recognize half the people that just killed me by out flying me in every possible way.

Hmmmm:rolleyes:

[Elfie]

Something else that can help you out Ohio is to go to the scores page and click the link for *kill stats in expanded format* (I think thats the name of the link, if thats not exact it's very similar). That page will show you how many kills you have in each aircraft you have flown, how many times you have died in each aircraft and how many times you have died to each aircraft.

I use that page as a tool. I used to die to La-7's more than any other aircraft type. When I realised that, I started working on improving my ability to kill the La-7. I read articles, asked questions and looked at other peoples films. Once I had improved my skills vs the La-7 I looked at that scores page again to see which aircraft was killing me the most now and repeated the process to improve against that aircraft.

I also set goals for myself each Tour. Usually my goals include improving my SA and gunnery skills. Imo those are the 2 most important skills in A2A combat.

Biggest thing to remember though, is the learning never ends

*edit* Also check out the help and training forum, LOADS and LOADS of good info there.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Ironblade
Question :
Can you tell me how to properlly Take a base in accordance with fair play or furball guidlines?  

Here would be the perfect example using a 10--man squad or "mission" that provides CAP. We'll presume the town is down by some buffs/jabos who have either died or are rtb.

The biggest complaint about a failure to take a base usually revolves around the goon dying before it gets there, right? quite probably by just one bad guy in an area where there are 10+ friendlies.

7 of those friendlies are probably vulc... errr close capping the airfield, 1-2 are probably over the town making sure nothing comes up. then you have 1 guy who may be hanging around the goon thinking he's "escorting" it - in all likelyhood about 2-3k directly above the goonm which is the absolute best seat in the house for watching the goon explode.


here's where the "tactical" failure comes in.  instead of having 7 guys close capping, you only need 2 or 3.  the other 4-5 guys *should* be extending outwards towards the most likely ingress route of the goon hunter(s), preventing them from even getting within view of the base being worked over, much less the goon inbound. this kills/or at least ties up any bad guys, giving that goon time to make a nice easy stress-free drop.

the guy *over* the goon, would be better off being a mile or 2 ahead, just within dot range of the goon (we'll assume he made the goon his wingman so he can track it easier) and at about 12-15k agl. this provides the "escort" the opportunity to catch any inbound goon killers, and force them down and away, or dive down screaming onto one who may be hauling *** on the deck. once a high goon killer starts his dive onto the goon, the goon is pretty much undefendable. you have to catch the bad guy before that point.  or prevent them from getting to that point in the first place.

on the converse side of base defense, we'll take a 4-man flight fighter sweep. these guys want to help defend the base.  how often do these 4 guys simply dive down into the mess *at* the base, killing a vulcher or 2 before getting killed by the baddies who are arriving with alt themselves?

instead of doing that, they should overfly the base (and the 7-8 guys down below vulching) and hit the inbound jabos/buffs/fighter about mid-point between the baddies' originating base and the base being defended causing them to either dump ord, or kill them. this creates disorganization amongst the attackers while they try and deal with that sweep, as well as buying time for the guys *at* the base being defended to kill the vulchers, up and start heading out themselves.

get the idea?

[Octavius]

Originally posted by dedalos
Why do I get the feeling that they are still here but they fly under a different name?  In AHI when I went down, 9 out of 10 times I knew the person who killed me.  Since AHII however, I've had my arse handed to me by too many people I never encountered before.  Playing for 2 years and all of a shuden I can't recognize half the people that just killed me by out flying me in every possible way.

Hmmmm:rolleyes:

lol, the law of averages I suppose.  The new crowd can't all suck .  A percentage could have learned on their own.