Author Topic: Russia, I've hard this some where before.  (Read 970 times)

Offline JBA

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1797
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« on: September 08, 2004, 12:15:10 PM »
Russia prepares Bush doctrine.

One more ally in the World war against terror, maybe France and Germany will wake up next?


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&ncid=732&e=4&u=/afp/20040908/ts_afp/russia_attacks_military
"They effect the march of freedom with their flash drives.....and I use mine for porn. Viva La Revolution!". .ZetaNine  03/06/08
"I'm just a victim of my own liberalhoodedness"  Midnight Target

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2004, 12:17:37 PM »
Hmmm...
Quote
"Military action is the last resort in the fight agaisnt terrorism."
sand

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6138
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2004, 12:21:01 PM »
When they target women and children specifically, as in Russia, the gloves are off, and the last resort becomes the only viable option. Those are vermin, extermination is in order.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2004, 12:23:25 PM »
I hope they dont blow up grozny for the third time...

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2004, 12:48:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I hope they dont blow up grozny for the third time...


Grun please STFU.

You still didn't tell me the secret way to take fortified cities without using artillery and shturmoviks.

And while saying this you still justify the genocide of Serbian population in Krajna. Did Serbs from Krajna blow apartment houses in Zagreb?

As for this General Staff statements: some sane parliament politicians already said that any agressive actions against souverign states must be approved by Security Council. I hope that direct threat from terrorists hosted by neighbouring states like Georgia (that uses Chechen terrorists in conflict with South Osetia now) can be answered without any decisions by UN.

Also, you have to understand, that any military action by Russian armed forces will never be supported by out European and American "friends". The still live in cold war. Do you know  that US Department of State made a statement that again calls for "political solution" in Chechnya and declared that US government will keep on consulting with Chechen terrorist representatives? This is called a "war on terrorism" :( Giving them political asylum and "consulting" with terrorists means fighting terrorism? :confused:

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2004, 12:51:00 PM »
There is artillery and then there is artillery..  Hey lets think of this as preemptive revenge for the school massacre!!

Grozny, the cvapital of Chechnya:


Offline Edbert

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2220
      • http://www.edbert.net
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2004, 12:53:54 PM »
Circumventing the language filter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 02:04:23 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2004, 01:03:19 PM »
Grun, you don't deserve my attention. I have said it many times before, i don't know why I bother with you. Your hump can be cured only by the grave. Your hatred to Orthodox nations is irrational, you prefer to side with terrorists and justify any act of violence and genocide against Orthodox population.

Edbert, people like Zakayev, known terrorist accused in multiple crimes including slaughtering of Orthodox priests, who got political asylum in the UK, are on UN terrorist lists for quite a long time. It's a sad practice of double standards. :(

Unfortunately "war on terrorism" is only a slogan, and "Russia has only two allies: it's Army and Navy" (c) Alexander III, the only Emperor who didn't wage any wars.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2004, 01:08:24 PM »
Again your obessesion with the Orthodox religion... I have no clue why you even think this figures into my thinking.  I have never said anything or alluded to anything of the sort...  

:rofl

But as far as Chechnya, if you think that blowing up Grozny one more time will put this whole Chechen terrorist matter to rest then by all means do so... I still see a few annoying shadows on the picuture, those have surely got to go!

Offline Edbert

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2220
      • http://www.edbert.net
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2004, 01:54:56 PM »
I don't know what shocked me more today; finding myself in agreement with GSholtz or a New York Times op/ed peice!

But I find myself in complete agreement with David Brooks in this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/07/opinion/07brooks.html

For those of you without logon accounts, here is the article:
Cult of Death
By DAVID BROOKS

We've been forced to witness the massacre of innocents. In New York, Madrid, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Baghdad and Bali, we have seen thousands of people destroyed while going about the daily activities of life.

We've been forced to endure the massacre of children. Whether it's teenagers outside an Israeli disco or students in Beslan, Russia, we've seen kids singled out as special targets.

We should by now have become used to the death cult that is thriving at the fringes of the Muslim world. This is the cult of people who are proud to declare, "You love life, but we love death." This is the cult that sent waves of defenseless children to be mowed down on the battlefields of the Iran-Iraq war, that trains kindergartners to become bombs, that fetishizes death, that sends people off joyfully to commit mass murder.

This cult attaches itself to a political cause but parasitically strangles it. The death cult has strangled the dream of a Palestinian state. The suicide bombers have not brought peace to Palestine; they've brought reprisals. The car bombers are not pushing the U.S. out of Iraq; they're forcing us to stay longer. The death cult is now strangling the Chechen cause, and will bring not independence but blood.

But that's the idea. Because the death cult is not really about the cause it purports to serve. It's about the sheer pleasure of killing and dying.

It's about massacring people while in a state of spiritual loftiness. It's about experiencing the total freedom of barbarism - freedom even from human nature, which says, Love children, and Love life. It's about the joy of sadism and suicide.

We should be used to this pathological mass movement by now. We should be able to talk about such things. Yet when you look at the Western reaction to the Beslan massacres, you see people quick to divert their attention away from the core horror of this act, as if to say: We don't want to stare into this abyss. We don't want to acknowledge those parts of human nature that were on display in Beslan. Something here, if thought about too deeply, undermines the categories we use to live our lives, undermines our faith in the essential goodness of human beings.

Three years after Sept. 11, too many people have become experts at averting their eyes. If you look at the editorials and public pronouncements made in response to Beslan, you see that they glide over the perpetrators of this act and search for more conventional, more easily comprehensible targets for their rage.

The Boston Globe editorial, which was typical of the American journalistic response, made two quick references to the barbarity of the terrorists, but then quickly veered off with long passages condemning Putin and various Russian policy errors.

The Dutch foreign minister, Bernard Bot, speaking on behalf of the European Union, declared: "All countries in the world need to work together to prevent tragedies like this. But we also would like to know from the Russian authorities how this tragedy could have happened."

It wasn't a tragedy. It was a carefully planned mass murder operation. And it wasn't Russian authorities who stuffed basketball nets with explosives and shot children in the back as they tried to run away.

Whatever horrors the Russians have perpetrated upon the Chechens, whatever their ineptitude in responding to the attack, the essential nature of this act was in the act itself. It was the fact that a team of human beings could go into a school, live with hundreds of children for a few days, look them in the eyes and hear their cries, and then blow them up.

Dissertations will be written about the euphemisms the media used to describe these murderers. They were called "separatists" and "hostage-takers." Three years after Sept. 11, many are still apparently unable to talk about this evil. They still try to rationalize terror. What drives the terrorists to do this? What are they trying to achieve?

They're still victims of the delusion that Paul Berman diagnosed after Sept. 11: "It was the belief that, in the modern world, even the enemies of reason cannot be the enemies of reason. Even the unreasonable must be, in some fashion, reasonable."

This death cult has no reason and is beyond negotiation. This is what makes it so frightening. This is what causes so many to engage in a sort of mental diversion. They don't want to confront this horror. So they rush off in search of more comprehensible things to hate.

Offline cpxxx

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2707
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2004, 01:56:16 PM »
Grunherz has a point. Flattening Grozny and laying waste to Chechnya did not work the last time. All it did was create the kind of pitiless monsters that took those children hostage and murdered them.  I posted these before.

Consider this

http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archiv...3_122_1_eng.txt

Thrown up by a single random search in google.

This

http://www.hrw.org/press/2000/06/chech0602.htm

and this

http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/...dd?OpenDocument

This war won't be won that way.

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2004, 02:00:30 PM »
Why is Putin preventing independent investigations about recent happenings ?

Is he, with the army, hiding something they don't want people of Russia to know about ?

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2004, 02:24:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Why is Putin preventing independent investigations about recent happenings ?

Is he, with the army, hiding something they don't want people of Russia to know about ?


The only reasonable explaination for this is that they don't want to spread terror. Do you know why there was no terrorism in USSR? No environment to spread terror...

I want people who made this terror attack possible to be hanged on street lamp posts. :mad: But I doubt we'll never know them. At least Putin was sincere saying this :mad:

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Russia, I've hard this some where before.
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2004, 02:32:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx
Grunherz has a point. Flattening Grozny and laying waste to Chechnya did not work the last time. All it did was create the kind of pitiless monsters that took those children hostage and murdered them.  I posted these before.

Consider this

http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archiv...3_122_1_eng.txt

Thrown up by a single random search in google.

This

http://www.hrw.org/press/2000/06/chech0602.htm

and this

http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/...dd?OpenDocument

This war won't be won that way.


The only link that opened was the one from human rights watch, a well-known CIA-sponsored terrorist supporting organisation.

What amazes me is that every "human rights watching" freak screams about Russian "atrocities" at every corner, completely forgeting about Chechen genocide, rapes, murders, kidnapping and slavery. They call it a "cultural tradition of a small but brave highlander nation" that didn't have an idea of writing before evil Russians came.