what´s wrong with the Perkin up planes instead of limmit idea?

[Karnak]

The only way the vets would feel a perk cost and cause it to affect them (if it doesn't affect them it is useless in the context of solving the problem) would be to have the limiter set the base perk price somewhere around 500 perk points for a P-51D or La-7.  Less than that and it will be useless.

Of course that completely screws the newer and less skilled players.



5 perk points?  Bah.  If I regularly earn three times that it would be useless to affect somebody like Shane.

[dedalos]

Because I would need only 1 or 2 LA7s to make it through a tour.  The higher the perk value the more timid the flying would be.  The only people penalized would be new players

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by Karnak
The only way the vets would feel a perk cost and cause it to affect them (if it doesn't affect them it is useless in the context of solving the problem) would be to have the limiter set the base perk price somewhere around 500 perk points for a P-51D or La-7.  Less than that and it will be useless.

Of course that completely screws the newer and less skilled players.



5 perk points?  Bah.  If I regularly earn three times that it would be useless to affect somebody like Shane.

the rationality of your thought process is beyond me.  If you think 5 or 10 perks for a plane has no effect might I direct you towards the f4u-c?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
If you add an incenctive to burn perks then at some point folks will have to earn the perks they want to use on various rides. With the perk modifier, based on a longer term avg,  the sides with higher numbers would earn on avg less perks .  This would provide an incentive towards side balancing.

It does not provide an incentive toward side balancing necessarily.  In fact, I would argue that it provides an incentive toward ultra-conservative flying and actually promotes hordelike behavior where the threat of dying (and thus losing perks) declines dramatically.  Thus even if newbies fail to earn a substantial number of perks, the horde in the least assures them that they won't lose many either.

Can you imagine an arena with all of the worst elements of the hordes plus an even more widespread philosophy promoting conservative, fly-to-live behavior?  Ouch.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
It does not provide an incentive toward side balancing necessarily.  In fact, I would argue that it provides an incentive toward ultra-conservative flying and actually promotes hordelike behavior where the threat of dying (and thus losing perks) declines dramatically.  Thus even if newbies fail to earn a substantial number of perks, the horde in the least assures them that they won't lose many either.

Can you imagine an arena with all of the worst elements of the hordes plus an even more widespread philosophy promoting conservative, fly-to-live behavior?  Ouch.

-- Todd/Leviathn

is this satirical?  how much do people complain about suicide dweebs?  Wouldn't the desire to live increase the "realism" of the game?  Less suicide jabo's,  less ho's  ect...  I don't know about you guys but I have thousands of unused perks that would get used if I had some need for them.  I still fly perk birds agressively and don't really care about losing them as much as I care about a good fight.  What are you hording perks for?  Can you ebay them for money now?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
If you think 5 or 10 perks for a plane has no effect might I direct you towards the f4u-c?

This example, if anything, discredits your original proposal.  Perking the F4U-1C certainly reduced its MA appearances, but it also fundamentally changed how people flew it.  It's now used almost exclusively in low risk, high yield base vulching scenarios whereas prior to perking it was used for just about everything including furballing.

I don't have the data in front of me, but I'd venture that the F4U-1C's K/D ratio has gone up noticably since perking it despite changes that hurt its performance.  I just went and checked, and the F4U-1C enjoyed a roughly 1.5:1 K/D ratio prior to perking.  Immediately after perking, this went up to over 2:1, and it has, for the most part, remained between 2:1 and 4:1 every tour since.  Ever wonder why?

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Karnak]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
What are you hording perks for?  Can you ebay them for money now?

Perk planes are not fun to fly because of the gangbang tags.  I can get gangbanged for free.

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by Karnak
Perk planes are not fun to fly because of the gangbang tags.  I can get gangbanged for free.

well now...

lets not let personal lives get involved in this..

Seriously,
 If the perk system was more extensive it would not be so exceptional.  To that end, limiting the plane identifies as discussed before and above would go a long way towards making a perk plane more viable.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
is this satirical?  how much do people complain about suicide dweebs?  Wouldn't the desire to live increase the "realism" of the game?  Less suicide jabo's,  less ho's  ect...  

[/b]

The goal of the plane limiter is not realism, it's balance.  Why should the goal of a perk limiter be any different?  In addition, you cannot achieve true "realism" in the main arena, and even if you did it would be mind-numbingly boring.

I don't know about you guys but I have thousands of unused perks that would get used if I had some need for them.  I still fly perk birds agressively and don't really care about losing them as much as I care about a good fight.  What are you hording perks for?  Can you ebay them for money now?

I have no interest in flying perk planes.  They hold no appeal for me.  Hence, I possess an obscene amount of perk points that I couldn't blow through under your system even if I wanted to.  Thus a perk point system does not, and would not, affect me in the least.  Doesn't that strike you as odd?

-- Todd/Leviathn

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
This example, if anything, discredits your original proposal.  Perking the F4U-1C certainly reduced its MA appearances, but it also fundamentally changed how people flew it.  It's now used almost exclusively in low risk, high yield base vulching scenarios whereas prior to perking it was used for just about everything including furballing.

I don't have the data in front of me, but I'd venture that the F4U-1C's K/D ratio has gone up noticably since perking it despite changes that hurt its performance.  I just went and checked, and the F4U-1C enjoyed a roughly 1.5:1 K/D ratio prior to perking.  Immediately after perking, this went up to over 2:1, and it has, for the most part, remained between 2:1 and 4:1 every tour since.  Ever wonder why?

-- Todd/Leviathn

well.. which way do you want it?  more suicide dweebs or more people flying to live?  I routinely fly the f4uc as cap in low intensity areas.. pretty fun bird but it climbs like a pregnant walrus.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
well.. which way do you want it?  more suicide dweebs or more people flying to live?

What kind of false dichotomy is this?  Removing suicide dweebs does not mean that everyone "flies to live."  But you are advocating that people fly to live, and with everyone flying to live on an arena-wide basis, you have a formula for disastrously boring gameplay.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[rabbidrabbit]

my point is that no matter what happens people will complain.  The question is what type of game play should HTC encourage?  well.. thats up to them.  I'd rather see folks trying to live more than obviously suiciding again and again just to take out a cv or pork a base.  Even with flying to live there are hundreds of players in the MA at most any time.  Surely there can be many fine fights.  I think your point is overly stated though I agree with its premise that having more planes perked will encourage folks to fly more conservatively.  I think you could agree that having small perks on the top 10 planes would reduce their usage, another common complaint, as well as increase the variety of planes found in the MA now..  I don't think this is a bad thing

[hitech]

rabbidrabbit: It is all a question of balance.

The extream case I have seen tried by AW was a one life to live Arena. You got 1 life per day. "Sounds like a neet idea right" closer to real life, put the pucker factor into the fight. Well here is what realy happend.

Everyone discovered the same thing, because living out wieged the risk of fighting, no one would engange unless they have a big advantage. Hence the hole time was spent just chasing people and never fighting. No fights everone got board, next thing no one is even trying the arena.

So to make a game fun, you realy have to have the need to engage out wiegh the risk of dieing in the majority of cases.

This is acctualy more realisitic if you view it from a slightly different perspective. In real war the need to accomplish the mission outwieghed the need to live. We do not have anything that realy promotes the need to accomplish a mission, hence we lower the penalty for death, there by making the engagement more important then the death.


HiTech

[SunKing]

Originally posted by hitech
We do not have anything that realy promotes the need to accomplish a mission, hence we lower the penalty for death, there by making the engagement more important then the death.


HiTech

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[rabbidrabbit]

Thanks for participating HT!

I'd expect that drastic measures lead to drastic countermeasures such as you showed.

To that end what I'm suggesting in not all that dramatic at all.  By creating demand via minor  ie 10 or less perks for the top 10 planes while leaving the others unperked I think you will find folks would tend to do all those things I and others suggested.  The trick is to make the medicine strong enough to fix the issue without killing the patient.  I would sure welcome your thoughts on the issue since you have quite a bit of experience with the subject.