Author Topic: Socialist health care (Read 2009 times)

Gh0stFT · « **Reply #15 on:** September 15, 2004, 05:39:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
Havent needed any of our "socialist" healthcare yet (thank cod), but im more than willing to pay taxes for them. Guess I don't mind helping others that are not as fortunate.

hey Nilsen i needed our "socialist health care" this year for the first time.
I broke my
right bottom leg (Tibia, not the Fibula) while doing acrobatic landing with my paraglider.
i was in hospital for 12 days and couldnt go to work for 6 weeks.
But hey I got my full Payday (sp?), so whats wrong? today i
still have my job and do paragliding

I dont want to know how much the whole operation have cost,
somehow i dont really care, i know i dont have to bother.

and ASTAC one question, you asked "What did they do to earn it?"
What if it happens that you need the help, have YOU earn it?
I sounds as if it is someting horrible to help others if myself dont need help.

R
GhostFT

Pongo · « **Reply #16 on:** September 15, 2004, 05:41:33 PM »

socialist. yet our system costs less and is more effective then the US system. Most of the people traveling south for treatements are seeking gender specific abortions or boob jobs cause in a capatilist system you can get either done beyond the realms of good taste.

Nilsen · « **Reply #17 on:** September 15, 2004, 05:45:46 PM »

Glad to hear you are ok again Gh0stFT.

ASTAC · « **Reply #18 on:** September 15, 2004, 05:57:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
hey Nilsen i needed our "socialist health care" this year for the first time.
I broke my
right bottom leg (Tibia, not the Fibula) while doing acrobatic landing with my paraglider.
i was in hospital for 12 days and couldnt go to work for 6 weeks.
But hey I got my full Payday (sp?), so whats wrong? today i
still have my job and do paragliding
I dont want to know how much the whole operation have cost,
somehow i dont really care, i know i dont have to bother.

and ASTAC one question, you asked "What did they do to earn it?"
What if it happens that you need the help, have YOU earn it?
I sounds as if it is someting horrible to help others if myself dont need help.

R
GhostFT

I'm earning my healthcare as we speak..I volunteered for the Navy..been doing it for almost 12 years now...will do at least 20..hopefully more..One of the benifits for helping to protech a nation..considering the amount of my life I've given up I have earned it..Socialst healthcare to me means that any bum that has never tried to do anything with their lives..who are probrably already a burden on society is entitled to care..I don't think so...I can maybe see it if there were restrictions on who could get it.

My point is..where do we draw the line..how many aspects of our lives will become completely controolled by the government...Does it stop when we are standing in bread lines and have to have papers to travel from town to town or state to state?

Sandman · « **Reply #19 on:** September 15, 2004, 06:01:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by medicboy
We have socialist medicine in the states, it's just more available in some states than others, it's called welfare. California calls it medi-cal, most other states call it medic-aid. We in the ambulance biz in cali called it the California gold card, any treatment, any time, no bill, can't be turnd away. Sounds like congress's golden fleece retirement... mmmmm

Bingo.

You what bothers me most about welfare patients? They have no concept of triage. They go to the doctor for EVERYTHING. Cold, flu, you name it... off to the doctor.

A few years ago, my son had an allergic reaction to some unknown substance. The whites of his eyes swelled. It looked horrid. This was new to me, so off to urgent care we went. The treatment was saline solution to wash out the eyes and a dose of Benadryl. It's happened a few times since. Now, I just treat him at home. Were I on government subsidy, it would cost me more to go down to the local Wal-Mart and purchase the Benadryl than it would for me to visit the doctor every time this happens.

Sandman · « **Reply #20 on:** September 15, 2004, 06:03:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ASTAC
I'm earning my healthcare as we speak..I volunteered for the Navy..been doing it for almost 12 years now...will do at least 20..hopefully more..One of the benifits for helping to protech a nation..considering the amount of my life I've given up I have earned it..

Go visit the local Navy clinic. Watch closely how they treat veterans and retirees.

It was one of the reasons I chose to quit rather than retire.

ASTAC · « **Reply #21 on:** September 15, 2004, 06:09:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman
Go visit the local Navy clinic. Watch closely how they treat veterans and retirees.

It was one of the reasons I chose to quit rather than retire.

There are three Generations of Navy in my family...None of them have been treated badly or been refused treatment ..one of my Gradfathers was pretty much a lost cause his last 2 years..yet he received excellent treatment right up to the end..at a VA hospital no less

bustr · « **Reply #22 on:** September 15, 2004, 06:19:20 PM »

ASTAC,

U.S. has a higher rate of productivity than the UE in general. Many of the UE members insure 30-120 days paid vacation for everyone. You can milk an additional 60-90 days for personal health reasons. Societal Health care for all is the law. Paid retirement and a government subsidised place to live. Up to 75% tax rate on earnings. Higher unemployment. Less incentive to work and be as highly productive as we are.

I guess the only advantage we have is the potential to create more personal fortune through productivity than they have and our higher quality of living due to that productivity. But as for the poor and unisured someone will trot out. In america they have the same opportunity to raise themselves out of it as I did. 1984 I was homeless and eating from trash cans in Berkeley California. Now I'm a server support engineer for Bank of America. Any kind of garbage is gahstly after you really had to eat it. I like where I'm at as a capitolist.

Torque · « **Reply #23 on:** September 15, 2004, 06:23:39 PM »

Works great on a smaller level,

Last week i got some nasty posion ivy around da ankles. I didn't even have to book an appointment with my regular Doc, i just went down to the local Walk in Clinic (one of three less than five minutes away) and flipped out my card.

Waited all of 5 mins to see the Doc there. He gave me a couple of prescriptions for some cortisone cream and antibiotics. Walked nextdoor to the Pharmacy cost to me $15 and twenty minutes.

Sweet!;)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #24 on:** September 15, 2004, 06:47:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
socialist. yet our system costs less and is more effective then the US system.

If you include the time one must wait for health care, I wouldn't exactly call that more "effective":

Quote

As the politicians bicker, Canadians spend more time waiting in line. A study by the right-wing Fraser Institute this month said that average waiting time for treatment in 2003 rose to 17.7 weeks from 16.5 weeks in 2002.

Some delays are much longer. Patients in Ontario who require major knee surgery can wait six months to see a specialist and then another 18 months for surgery.

"When I started work 30 years ago it took three weeks to get a patient into a specialist's office. Now it can take six months. There is a lot of inhumanity built into the system," one unhappy family doctor told Reuters.

Torque · « **Reply #25 on:** September 15, 2004, 07:10:54 PM »

I can see why the waiting period is shorter in the States cuz 43.6 million Americans have no health insurance and countless more are underinsured.

It's better to have none at all.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #26 on:** September 15, 2004, 07:49:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Torque
I can see why the waiting period is shorter in the States cuz 43.6 million Americans have no health insurance and countless more are underinsured.

It's better to have none at all.

There must be some common ground that the US health care system, and the Canadian health care system, could meet. Your's is failing, ours doesn't cover enough...

Nash · « **Reply #27 on:** September 15, 2004, 08:04:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
There must be some common ground that the US health care system, and the Canadian health care system, could meet. Your's is failing, ours doesn't cover enough...

Ours isn't "failing"... it just falls short in some areas. Same with yours. I'd rather have ours than yours, but I agree with ya.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #28 on:** September 15, 2004, 08:08:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nash
Ours isn't "failing"... it just falls short in some areas. Same with yours. I'd rather have ours than yours, but I agree with ya.

I'm not quite sure why you see clothes on the emporer, but if I had to wait 6 months for a specialist, I'd consider that a system that fails.

It took me 2 days to see a specialist, and 2 weeks later I was finished with shoulder surgery. My cost was $100. Employer picked up the rest.

Rolex · « **Reply #29 on:** September 15, 2004, 08:24:01 PM »

by bustr: "U.S. has a higher rate of productivity than the EU in general."

There are many ways to present such data and the method usually depends on the agenda of the presenter. The 'overall' method of using gross GDP is presented in the media for laymen consumption, but not very useful in the real world.

Many EU countries have higher productivity per work-hour than the U.S. The average U.S. worker puts in longer hours, but has fewer benefits and less paid vacation. For all the French bashing that people like to do, the average French worker has a higher productivity per hour than the average American worker.

If you eliminate the word 'socialized' from discussions of healthcare, I think you can discuss it more rationally. It is staggering to think that the average American (who has health insurance) pays $4,000-$5,000 more per year than those in other industrialized nations, yet has no better healthcare for the money.