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Author Topic: Socialist health care  (Read 2003 times)

Offline straffo

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« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2004, 02:04:28 AM »
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Originally posted by bustr
Many of the UE members insure 30-120 days paid vacation for everyone.  


I would love living in UE ! what a good place it is !

Seriously did you look up your affirmation ?
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2004, 02:07:12 AM »
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Don't ya just hate facts and data?


You seriously think we all work at Daimler ?
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Offline mora

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« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2004, 03:25:33 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
IMHO Canada's mistake is to outlaw private hospitals. While I am all for tax funded state run hospitals there is no need to make it a monopoly. Private hospitals works very well as a "buffer" when state run hospitals are out of capacity, and they can better specialize for those rare cases that a general hospital is ill equipped to handle. The state could still pay for the treatments with tax money if necessary.


That's how it's done here. I always go to a private and pay 50€ instead of 10€ on the public. That way I get atleast some return for my tax money. The public healthcare centers are horrible places with rude and unprofessional staff and sometimes even doctors.
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Offline Fruda

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« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2004, 04:05:26 AM »
Healthcare shouldn't be an industry.

Companies supplying the healthcare system should not be government-controlled, by healthcare itself should be.

There are many, many reasons for this. And I'm not gonna say any more than that.
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Offline Fruda

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« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2004, 04:12:30 AM »
You've gotta be kidding me. Many doctors (and staff) around here are very rude people.

On one occasion (things like this happen often, but this is the true stand-out), a doctor we didn't even know came to my dad's side and, with a rude, snarling voice, told him never to come to the ER again.

He'd been to the ER 35 times that year, due to very serious heart and kidney problems (finally they've been fixed --- to a point), and this ass**** comes in and calls him a "liar" who's doing this just to take up space in "his" hospital.

Of course, my dad really went at him after he said that (very loud yelling, not hitting). We never saw the moron again.

And in those days, we were on Medicaid, since we had no income whatsoever. Still, the 11 doctors my dad had kept sending bills (3 of them triple-billed, which is very illegal). There's a lawsuit, but it's currently on hold, since our lawyer is a lazy ass.

This is part of the experience we've had with this capitalist healthcare "industry". An industry that doesn't seem to give a **** about people who really need medical attention, and are just out to make ****loads of money.
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Offline -dead-

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« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2004, 05:34:37 AM »
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Originally posted by ASTAC
I'm earning my healthcare as we speak..I volunteered for the Navy..been doing it for almost 12 years now...will do at least 20..hopefully more..One of the benifits for helping to protech a nation..considering the amount of my life I've given up I have earned it..Socialst healthcare to me means that any bum that has never tried to do anything with their lives..who are probrably already a burden on society is entitled to care..I don't think so...I can maybe see it if there were restrictions on who could get it.

My point is..where do we draw the line..how many aspects of our lives will become completely controolled by the government...Does it stop when we are standing in bread lines and have to have papers to travel from town to town or state to state?
A slightly paradoxical attitude from someone whose healthcare and chosen lifestyle is entirely government-run and government-subsidized and government-controlled.  The lady doth protest too much, methinks. :)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2004, 05:36:53 AM by -dead- »
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Offline mora

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« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2004, 06:33:30 AM »
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Originally posted by Fruda
You've gotta be kidding me. Many doctors (and staff) around here are very rude people.


Well you don't have much of a public sector there? I was talking about public health care centers in Finland, where the staff is under a heavy load and are paid next to nothing, and in many cases are underqualified. I do my best to avoid bothering them. The best place to be for a health care person is in private sector and this is reflected in their attitude. OTOH larger hospitals in here are just fine.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2004, 06:35:51 AM by mora »
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Offline ASTAC

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« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2004, 06:42:37 AM »
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Originally posted by -dead-
A slightly paradoxical attitude from someone whose healthcare and chosen lifestyle is entirely government-run and government-subsidized and government-controlled.  The lady doth protest too much, methinks. :)


Gee..of course the military is government run...thats the way it is everywhere. I just don't want the government to control and subsidize EVERYTHING.

The purpose of the Federal govenment in it's original concept was to just provide a general central government for the individual states, to unify and coordinate the country and to provide a common defense. It was never meant to regulate every aspect of everyday life. As the United States is set up by definition each state is a "country". With the states responsible for Governing the people. Since the War between the states the government has grown out of control and has got way too big thus costing way too much. Now with this idea of National healthcare they want to expand the government even more and cost the citizens more money. No matter what scenario is presented, nothing will convince me that National healthcare is the way to go.

There would be an exception though..offer it as a cheap health insurance policy where those who elect to use it pay in for their own policy..It could be affordable that way and wouldn't force all citizens to be a financial burden to the government/taxpayers.
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Offline Naso

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« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2004, 06:58:10 AM »
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Originally posted by bustr
U.S. has a higher rate of productivity than the UE in general. Many of the UE members insure 30-120 days paid vacation for everyone. You can milk an additional 60-90 days for personal health reasons. Societal Health care for all is the law. Paid retirement and a government subsidised place to live. Up to 75% tax rate on earnings. Higher unemployment. Less incentive to work and be as highly productive as we are.
 


Bustr, I am Italian of the South Italy, and reading your post I feel enraged.

Now, you MUST tell me where is the place you are talking about, I want to move there NOW !!! :mad:

At the moment I work for 1k € each month, have 16 days of paid vacations (when, is choosen by the employer), If I am sick, and call a day out the office, they send to my house the legal medic (it's like a medical police) to check if I am really sick, and he is not friendly, I pay for the Societal Health care, but receive almost none, the unenployement rate in the range 20-30 yrs is around 50%, the average is around 24-25%, so I have to thank my employer, because he "let" me work for him 10-11 hours a day, without ANY extras (the contract say 8hrs a day), and fine me €s for 5 minutes of late entry at work.
And there are NOT houses paid by the government, except for the government members themselves.

Tell me where this EU Paradise you are talking about is, so I can move there ASAP.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2004, 09:06:04 AM »
one thing about socialized medicine that we could adopt and that would make it so that everyone could afford health care insurance in the U.S. is....

we could adopt the socialists practice of not being able to sue the doctor...

between 50-60% of all healthcare costs in the U.S. are related to litigation.

lazs
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Offline ASTAC

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« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2004, 09:08:50 AM »
Not only suits against the doctors....suits against pharnasuitical companies...

Hell most lawsuits should be outlawed...."pain and suffering" type awards and such
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That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2004, 10:01:24 AM »
sholtz... there are no restrictions on lawsuits against doctors in norway?   you have multi million dollar lawsuits in norway?  

In the U.S. doctors pay the same or slightly more than they make on average for litigation insurance.  is that the case in norway?

In the U.S.  would we want, as taxpayers, want to pay out for the litigation brought by ambulance chasers like kerries running mate?

lazs
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Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2004, 11:17:29 AM »
There aren't any restrictions on lawsuits against doctors/hospitals etc in the UK.

As to frivolous lawsuits, a nurse in the UK recently got a £350,000 ($630,000) compensation payout because she developed an allergy to latex.
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Offline myelo

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« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2004, 11:52:24 AM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
between 50-60% of all healthcare costs in the U.S. are related to litigation.


Got data?
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2004, 11:53:29 AM »
shlotz... I actually agree with you on this.  American juries give such high awards because they are not really taking the money from anyone... they are taking money from the evil insurance company.

They don't think it affects them.

If... we socialized the imalpractice insurance... say, taxes paid for the insurance of doctors... people would tend to not give out large awards knowing it was coming right out of their pockets.   Ambulance chasers like kerries running mate would then tend to not file so many lawsuits and the whole thing would get better.  

doctors could drop rates... health insurance groups could drop their rates.

best of both worlds.   U.S. health care at socialist costs.

lazs
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