The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004

[Widewing]

Originally posted by GODO
Actually SpitIX or niki are far better jabos than D9.

LOLOLOL In what respect? All three can haul at least 1,000 lbs of bombs (1,000 lbs, 500 kilos and 500 kilos respectively).

All have at least two 20mm cannon as well. Frankly, the Dora is the better Jabo due to its superior speed. This allows to get in and out with reduced risk of interception.

My regards,

Widewing

[GODO]

Originally posted by Widewing
LOLOLOL In what respect?  

LOLOLOL in every one related to cause damage to vehicles or structures.

Spit also loads 1000lb or 500 + 2 rockets, but has hispanos instead of Mg151/20s.

Niki loads 500Lb but has four guns, also far more potent than Mg151/20.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by GODO
LOLOLOL in every one related to cause damage to vehicles or structures.

Spit also loads 1000lb or 500 + 2 rockets, but has hispanos instead of Mg151/20s.

Niki loads 500Lb but has four guns, also far more potent than Mg151/20.

You said, "Actually SpitIX or niki are far better jabos than D9."

Neither is "far better" than the Dora, and you know it.

Strafing vehicles, unless they're M-3s is probably a wasted effort.  Besides, the Spitfire has about 1/2 the cannon ammo of the Dora, and the hizookas aren't twice as powerful.... The Niki, with about 800 rounds, is a better for strafing, but it trades guns for survivability. As you well know, few aircraft are better at getting back alive than the Dora.

Of course, if I was flying a pure Jabo sortie, I wouldn't want to take any of the above. Give me a P-38L or a P-47D-40. These are "far better jabos" than the Dora.

My regards,

Widewing

[GODO]

Originally posted by GODO
Actually SpitIX or niki are far better jabos than D9.

FAR Better J-A-B-O-S. And they are FAR better JABOS. And being able to survive does not mean being able to cause damage.

Go and try to kill a Panzr with 151/20, even hitting with all the 500 rounds in a D9.

A lucky spitIX can kill FOUR panzers in a sortie: 2 250lb bombs, 2 rockets and the guns.

A lucky D9 can kill ONE: 1 bomb.

In fact, 190A8 is also FAR better JABO than 190D9.

In the very best case, D9 is a mediocre jabo.

Of course P38L or P47 are far better jabos than SpitIX or niki, as 110G is better jabo than P38 or P47.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by GODO
FAR Better J-A-B-O-S. And they are FAR better JABOS. And being able to survive does not mean being able to cause damage.

Go and try to kill a Panzr with 151/20, even hitting with all the 500 rounds in a D9.

A lucky spitIX can kill FOUR panzers in a sortie: 2 250lb bombs, 2 rockets and the guns.

A lucky D9 can kill ONE: 1 bomb.

In fact, 190A8 is also FAR better JABO than 190D9.

In the very best case, D9 is a mediocre jabo.

Of course P38L or P47 are far better jabos than SpitIX or niki, as 110G is better jabo than P38 or P47.

Again, you keep using the term "far better". They are not far better than the Dora. And yes, I have landed multiple GV kills flying the 190A-5, and I take only 2 cannon.

If we look for the most effect jabo against GVs, the A-20G is the best of the lot. Easily land 8 to 10 kills in it if you are accurate with your bombs and strafe weaker types like the M-3 and LVT.

My regards,

Widewing

[GODO]

Originally posted by Widewing
And yes, I have landed multiple GV kills flying the 190A-5, and I take only 2 cannon.

You know pretty well you havent killed a single panzer with A5 (A8, D9 or F8 BTW) guns alone, on the other hand you can be awarded with the kills for putting lots of rounds on the GVs, while not killing them.

A20 is a different story, it is really able to kill several panzers alone.

[Karnak]

MANDOBLE,

Hispanos are not the GV killers they once were.  The recent patch that reduced the effectiveness of 20mm and lower sized guns had that effect.  The MG151/20 is, far all intents and purposes, just as good against Panzer IV Hs as the Hispano.

I don't know where you got the idea that the Type 99 Model IIs on thr N1K2-J were ever much better than the MG151/20s.

[GODO]

Karnak, I've killed and finished fresh panzers with hispanos alone in AH2. I've never been able to do this with 151/20, not even with 151/20 + Mk108 flying 110G. On the other hand I've landed sorties with 8 pz kills in 190A8 with guns only, but all of them were finished by bombs, other panzers or rockets.

In one ocasion we had an enemy panzer stopped near our field, I took off with 190A8 FIVE TIMES (rearming) with 4x20mm guns only. I didnt cause any kind of visible damage after emptying my guns on it over and over. Later I got the kill when a friendly panzer destroyed it.

Niki guns rounds are noticeably more powerfull than 151/20, in AH2 and in AH1 (and historically, with the exception of 151/20 mines). I would say it is and was equivalent to hispano in punch power, 1 flash = damage. With 151/20 several pings does not guarantee any kind of damage. Surprisingly I found 190A5 Mg17 far more efficient than the four guns combined (MGFF and MG151/20). It seems that several 151/20 hits in the same area are needed to cause any damage, low ROF and current dispersion makes it very difficult (you hit, hit and hit but no damage is done). With Mg17 you can concentrate lots of hits in the same area very fast. The other day in a 190A8 4x20mm I needed four sets of four impacts per salvo on a Yak9U to break it. That is, every salvo of 4 rounds reached the target with every round, but the hits were too dispersed along the Yak body. This is also one of the reasons behind N1K2, F4U1C, Typh and Tempest killing effectiveness. Each pair of guns are very close, it is very easy to score 2 hits in the same area or even in very same point at the same time, causing inmediate critical damage.

[MOSQ]

The Sept stats. There is no doubt the new gunnery model has affected the number of kills. We are still higher than 02, but not as high as 03. The panzer has siginificantly changed in usage. Since the gunnery model didn't change for GVs, it appears some folks have become more GV oriented.  To the tune of 50% more Panzer kills/deaths in Sept 2004 than in Sept 2003.

June 02: 420,800
June 03: 544,366
June 04: 486,581

July 02: 529,241
July 03: 619,677
July 04: 492,754

Aug 02: 412,917
Aug 03: 642,645
Aug 04: 471,781

Sept 02: 426471
Sept 03: 540939
Sept 04: 452728

The Panzer continues on a "roll".
Panzer:

July 2003: Kills: 54,748; Deaths: 54,389 Combined: 109,137
July 2004: Kills: 48,353; Deaths: 45,108 Combined: 93,461

Aug 2003: Kills: 58,400; Deaths: 57,312 Combined: 115,712
Aug 2004: Kills: 79,428; Deaths: 75,914 Combined: 155,342

Sept 2003: Kills: 52,974; Deaths: 53,531 Combined: 106,505
Sept 2004: Kills: 79,640; Deaths: 77,309 Combined: 156,949

With the soon to be intro of the T-34, the GV #s will probably rock as folks try it out.

[Urchin]

I've been chalking the increased use in GV's up to the fact that it is a little tougher to get kills in planes now, so people being people, can't be bothered to learn how.  

I actually foresee the day when the "ship gun" (manned ack/ 5 inch) leads the kill lists, probably after the GVs get worked over some more.

[Mak333]

Hidden Variable mes ami's...

There have been a great deal of people who have left the game when Ah2 came out.  Don't forget that.

[Karnak]

To actually compare then and now you need to list the kills and deaths as a percentage of the total.  Just the number doesn't tell us much as player numbers change over time.


As to the higher use of tanks I'd posit another theory as well, the AH2 terrain engine makes GV fights much more fun than AH1 GV fights.

[AKFokerFoder+]

Urchin:

I actually foresee the day when the "ship gun" (manned ack/ 5 inch) leads the kill lists, probably after the GVs get worked over some more.

Ship Gunner Stats:

26,504 in Sept 03
25,613 in Sept 04

I would say that the Ship Gunner stats are stable.

[MOSQ]

Originally posted by Karnak
As to the higher use of tanks I'd posit another theory as well, the AH2 terrain engine makes GV fights much more fun than AH1 GV fights.

Agreed, the new terrain makes them much more fun, and survivable from air attacks if you use the tree cover properly.

Guess we better get that Ju-87G warmed up !

[Mak333]

That better not be sarcastic...