Author Topic: The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004  (Read 2622 times)

Offline humble

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6434
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2004, 03:43:41 PM »
Overall I'd say the total player base has declined a bit over the last year. The overall "playability" of the game has declined dramatically. Obviously thats why the ENY was implemented, as an attempt (at least partially successful IMO) to "stop the bleeding".

Personally I feel that indivdually each aspect (FM,damage model,gunnery model etc) of the game is better but somewhow the "total package" is much worse. The game simply isnt as much fun anymore. Some of this is probably actually hardware driven since "seeing" a GV is much tougher and hitting a plane is a bit tougher...so your video card or joystick effect your "playability" more now than in AH.

Obviously the powers that be are focused on this since we now have new commercials and a refocus on new planes and vehicles vs development of TOD.

I think the ENY has helped more than it hurt but it hasnt addressed the "core issue"...simply put for many the "fun factor" has diminished over time.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline TequilaChaser

  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10173
      • The Damned - founded by Ptero in 1988
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2004, 04:05:53 PM »
maybe what humble said in the last post, about customer base decline, I see it as
1st- you are talking bout Summer time June, July, August hence Summer Vacation, people out doing things etc.....
economy is better from this time last year so people have possibly had a chance to do more outdoor activitys.......

2nd- wait and compare stats in Oct, Nov, dec when people are back indoors and flying more

3rd- a year later some people have gained in their flying skills a little more and are flying better..........

anyhow.I did not read all the other post except the first 1 and the one before mine.........

but either you are having fun, and continue to fly or you are starting to not have fun and should take a break....
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TMAST

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2004, 05:10:17 PM »
Well, I have been out of AH for awhile but got bit by the bug again a week or so ago. I thought about it and decided my schedule would allow me a few hours or so a week to play a game again SO! I go DLed AHII and discover, to my chagrin that I need a new vid card......hmmmm....I'm a divorced dad paying child support and excess cash is very thin BUT I bite the bullet and go get a new vid card....ouch. Plug the sucker in and FINALLY get AHII to run. I piddle around offline, checking things out and once I feel that I'm somewhat comfortable with the game again I log back in, create a new account and go to MA. First thing that happens, I cant fly the plane I select. Already not liking what I'm seeing but I find another base and can get the plane I want and fly 3 sorties. I can tell some differences but still am not sure what has changed so I come here to see if I can discover what is new.

What I see so far does not make me happy. After reading over all these post the thing that comes through most evidently when reading between the lines is that the game isnt as fun. This is NOT, repeat NOT a good thing. Listen, I'm a huge history buff. I've loved history since I was a little kid, always have. I've read books on Air Combat but I play AH for FUN! Pure and simple, FUN! I have a life, I work, I have friends, I go to the gym, I love to ride Mtn Bikes, I have a pseudo girl-friend (dont ask :-) I have two kids who I dont see near enough, I go to church, I have a house to take care of, a yard to keep up and cat who depends on me to feed him :) so my only reason for playing (read playing, not living) AH is FUN!! FUN! FUN! FUN! When I played before I would come in, check the arena, find the biggest fights I could find, up in either a Typhoon (if I felt like cherry picking the fur-ball) or a niki if I felt like lowering my head and charging into the middle of a big nasty furball and blazing away. I did what was FUN to me. I didnt care who flew what, who had more numbers, who porked what base or suicided here or there or anything else. I just did whatever I felt was going to bring me the most "ENTERTAINMENT"! Sometimes that might be suiciding in a low lever bomber, or jumping up in an Ostie, or manning the guns on a BB or finding a good GV battle and grabbing a tank. I just wanted to have some fun for 1 or 2 hours (which was about all the time I could spare to PLAY a game).

I wasnt looking for "true" realism of what it was like being a WWII fighter jock. If I want that I'll go play a scenario, thats about the only place you can even get CLOSE to what real WWII aerial combat was like. Mass formations of planes, flying with a wingman with a specific mission that you'd spent either days or maybe just a few hours planning and preparing for. Waiting in the ready room with your buddies waiting for the word to "man your plane!" Flying scenarios to me DID feel like what I had always read about in books about WWII aerial combat. Formations of the same planes either jumping or getting jumped by another formation of the same planes. A few minutes of wild melee followed by the errie feeling of suddenly being alone when only moments ago the sky was flilled with flying, burning, turning, falling planes and bullets flying everywhere. Now you're alone, low and low on ammo and the only thing you care about is finding a friend and getting home alive. THAT was fun! But is it something you can even come CLOSE to replicating in the MA?? NO WAY! Impossible!

Now it seems as if things are being done to "manage" the MA. Why? The objective of the MA is fun, at least it is in my book and I have a feeling that it is for most other people as well. I now read that HTC is planning TV ads and more print ads to increase membership. Who do you think most of these people are going to be? Die-hard grognards who know every detail of every plane that ever flew in WWII? No, they're going to be your average joe off the street who thinks that playing a WWII fighter game looks FUN. Pure and simple. Most will come check out AHII to see if its FUN!

I hadnt expected many things to have changed in my time away from AH but I certainly hadnt expected HTC to begin gerrymandering the arena to achieve......what? balance? Playability? In who's opinion? AHI was fine as it was before, not perfect but it was fun and thats what playing a game is suppose to be all about. The gunnery was fine, the hit sprites were fine, the plane usage was fine, it all added up to something that was fun. Keep trying to make it more "realistic" by making it more difficult to get hits, more difficult to see the hits, more difficult to fly the plane people want fly, eliminate furballs, stop porking, force the MA to ALWAYS have even numbers, stop land grabbing or whatever else some few who will write to HTC or complain on a message board dont like and before long you WILL see the lights go out once again on a good, fun WWII flight sim GAME.

I started playing AW because it looked FUN! It was fun! TONS of fun! I wanted to get better so I bought some books on ACM, I read, I talked to people, I learned and I got better. I dont consider myself any kind of ACM guru but I know I dot better and I learned. KEEP the game fun and more people will come to play and more importantly want to keep playing. If they keep having fun and keep wanting to play then MAYBE they'll want to learn ACM and do what all the rest of us did, learn ACM. If they dont want to learn ACM but still have fun playing and keep coming back then who am I or anyone else for that matter to tell them that they should learn to fly other planes and learn ACM and learn how to "play" the game the way someone else has arbitrarily decided the game should be played?

I'll play my free two weeks and hope that what I'm reading here isnt true. I HOPE I have fun.

Ok, Rant over

And as always these comments are of course....IMHO:D

TMASTodon

Offline humble

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6434
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2004, 05:29:57 PM »
I'll play my free two weeks and hope that what I'm reading here isnt true. I HOPE I have fun....

Gee can I have your video card:D :D :D ...

Actually welcome back and I hope you do have fun. To some degree the ENY and slightly lower numbers have evened out some of the gangbanging. I did finally join a squad (AK's) and not only did I add the benifit of not being a "lone wolf" but they are a great bunch of guys to boot. I'd suggest looking around for a squad you can "wing" with while you get your feet wet again...

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline Killjoy2

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 421
      • http://www.nortonfamily.net
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2004, 06:22:03 PM »
AH2 is not fun for me.  It's boring.  specifically what is boring is the herd mentality of fighting.   The gangbanging is boring.  I don't do it anymore.  OK a little.

AH2 is frustrating for me.  Specifically what is frustrating is the flights of Lancs and B17s at 500 feet.  They can't be ignored, so you just dive in and kill a few and die yourself. I might as well play quake.  It's dumb.  

The HTC staff must be Democrats.  Only a Democrat could come up with ENY.  ENY makes a 3rd world out of the most successful.  It takes from the rich but gives nothing to the poor.  It promises a better future and ignores the root problems.  Maybe HTC is trying to lure more Democrats into the game?  Who want's Al Sharpten for a squad leader.  Oh crap I'm getting off topic.

AH2 ground game is fun.  It's fun because its often man to man fighting.  There is team work, you can resupply your friends and the gunnery takes skill.  I enjoy the teamwork it takes to capture a base.  A lot of others do too.  

AH2 now caters to quake personalities and I personally think it's on-the-way-out.  I've been playing since WB's .95 or so and I've been through all the stages of getting bored etc.  This is different.

Offline MOSQ

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1198
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2004, 06:51:43 PM »
TMASTodon,
Very well said. It is a game to have fun. For me the begining of the "less fun" was the changeover in the bomber sight model back in AHI. That's when my squad switched from 90% buffs/10% fighters to 90% Jabos/ 5% fighters/5% buffs.

To go with the sight change HTC added buff formations. Ok, the tradeoff worked for some dedicated buffers.

Next the furballers whined that it was too easy to grab bases, so HTC made the AHII towns much larger. Now it's almost impossible to grab a base with just 3-4 players using jabos. It takes a concerted effort of quite a few.

The unitended consequence of these two actions is now we have formations of dive bombing Lancasters. Take a couple of low level formations of Lancs and you can take out an entire base's FHs and VH, and any GVs unlucky enough to be on the base. It's the most efficient means to destroy a base.

All the other tweaks like the gunnery model and ENY limiter have been hard on Vets who liked things fine the old way.

However change is a part of any game. I've come to appreciate the gunnery model. I like it better now than the old easy kill gunnery.

The jury is still out for me on the ENY limiter. I think ultimately it will do more harm than good. I'm willing to give it some more time. I'm sure there will be unintended consequences of it, just like there has been for the bomber site/formation/town/base changes.

All in All I still love playing this game. Welcome back, and if you're in Rookland look me up, I'll be glad to help you make the time warp adjustment.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2004, 06:58:12 PM »
MOSQ,

I consider the AH2 hit detection a fix.  If the AH1 hit detection hadn't been designed to be lower resolution than the 3D models I would go so far as to consider it a major bug fix.  As it is I just consider it a major improvement.  I don't want to get credit for hitting something that I didn't actually hit and AH1 gave such credit.

EDIT: I was responding to your comments in the opening post.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline bj229r

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6735
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2004, 07:22:13 PM »
biggest overall change ive seen is that, for whatever reason, 80-90% of nmy seems to fly in a large Borg cube==mebbe because it takes that many guys to get stuff done...or they terrified of running into an uneven fight and getting kilt...there might be 250 bases in play...only 4-5 have all 3 countries concentrated around em....most unfun...no fights..cant even pick around the edge without getting chased off by 5 spits...yawn
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/

Offline TweetyBird

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1775
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2004, 08:00:55 PM »
>>Who even notices these things, let alone quits over them?<<

I see the same thing here as in other online games. Changes made to satisfy the 100+ hours people, just make a worse experience for those who play maybe 20 hours a month.
Balance aint that important unless you're living in AH, and if you're not, the changes (like the eny value) made to promote balance are just a turn off.

But thats my problem. I just find AH isn't spit friendly, and I don't enjoy it  (or play) as much. Call me a spit a dweeb, but thats what I subcribed for. Its changed and I don't hardly play anymore. I keep my account for the bbs :)

Edit: A fighter town with not all the balancing acts would satisfy my need to kill and be killed. Getting 10 sorties in an hour is more important to me than balance - and it isnt ADD, its just not a lot of uninterupted time.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2004, 08:12:30 PM by TweetyBird »

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2004, 11:06:04 PM »
TweetyBird,

It isn't that AH2 isn't Spit friendly, it's that we don't have any appropriate Spitfires in AH.

You're using a summer, 1942 Spitfire Mk V or a summer, 1942 Spitfire Mk IX in a fall, 1944/winter, 1945 arena.

What we need is a Merlin 66 powered Spitfire Mk VIII or LF.Mk IX.  There needs to be a Spitfire that is fast enough to be competitive in the AH2 arena.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2004, 11:28:05 PM »
Spit 14 fits the bill as far as I'm concerned, I still haven't figured out why it is perked.

Offline MOSQ

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1198
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #56 on: October 20, 2004, 12:58:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Spit 14 fits the bill as far as I'm concerned, I still haven't figured out why it is perked.


I think because it's the fastest accelerating plane in the game from 150 to 250, and at 150 to 300 only the Tempest is faster. It's only at 300+ plus that the LA-7, 109G-10, and D-9 are faster.

And that's only on the deck. At altitude in may be much faster accelerating than that, in comparison to the other planes.

Offline XrightyX

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 277
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #57 on: October 20, 2004, 07:58:20 AM »
I missed something while I was waiting to buy my new compy...

What's the ENY limiter??????????????

Completely confused,

righty

Offline MOSQ

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1198
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #58 on: October 20, 2004, 11:32:38 AM »
Hey Squadie,
It will be nice to have you back.

The ENY limiter is an attempt to bring balance to the numbers of players on each side by limiting the planes you can fly based on their ENY value. The more players any one country has more than the others, the more that county's planeset is limited. The first planes to become unavailable are the perk rides because their ENY values are so low. Then the LA-7.....ect. Lately the Nits have had so many players online they were limited to 40+ENY rides. That means no FW-190s of any kind, no Niki, no P-38, no P-51D, ect.

It was the Nits complaining about Rook hordes being unfair that caused this. Now they are reaping the rewards of their own complaints.

On the downside some players have left AHII for other games because they are dedicated P-51D flyers and it is one of the first planes to be restricted. I think, but am not sure, that whole P-51 squads have left AHII.

See you soon in the skies Righty.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004
« Reply #59 on: October 20, 2004, 11:37:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Spit 14 fits the bill as far as I'm concerned, I still haven't figured out why it is perked.

But it is perked, so it doesn't fit the bill.

XrightyX,

The ENY limiter is a control mechanism added by HiTech that progressively disables a side's access to low ENY aircraft like the La-7 (ENY 5), P-51D (ENY 6), N1K2-J (ENY 7), ect, ect if the player numbers get too imbalanced.  For it to start there must be at least 200 players in the MA and one side must have, IIRC, 135% of the player numbers of the lowest side.  The greater the percentage, the higher the ENY of the disabled aircraft up to ENY 40 at 210%, IIRC.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-