Author Topic: prediction for 2015 (or sooner)  (Read 1021 times)

Offline Eagler

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prediction for 2015 (or sooner)
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2004, 07:52:34 AM »
everytime I hear someone mention "Government Health care" I picture the last time I was in the DMV or county tax office, heck, even the post office ....

slugs moving even slower than a normal human being could possibly go, not worried about their job performance as they are confident they are not in fear of losing their job .... you think the lines are long in ER now? You think the gov could do it better than the private sector has done up to this point?? LOL

gov heath care ... no thanks
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Offline Suave

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« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2004, 08:10:53 AM »
In my experience government hospitals in the US are much better than private sector   hospitals. If I had my choice I would rather  be a patient at a government hospital.

The major difference is that government hospitals don't worry about making a profit. In fact the are very cost inefective. They generally have a higher caregiver to patient ratio, especially in peace time.

Offline rpm

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« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2004, 08:37:34 AM »
My only experience with government run hospitals is the USPHS hospital in Seattle. Spent a few days there with a broken thumb. I didn't have a private room, but I didn't need one either. I was a Seaman and recieved the same care as a Rear Admiral with the identical injury. While he did have a private room, we had the same Doctor and Therapist.
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Offline Eagler

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« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2004, 09:21:08 AM »
do you honestly think a gov run PUBLIC hospital would compare in ANY way to a military run one?
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Offline rpm

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« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2004, 09:22:45 AM »
Are you at all familiar with the USPHS?
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Offline Rolex

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« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2004, 09:30:02 AM »
Comparing physicians and nurses to DMV and postal workers? By extension, firefighters, police and military personnel should be comparable to DMV workers also? That's a pretty pessimistic view of society and humanity there, Eagler.

And where did the idea of a government bureaucracy operating health services come from? Every answer to every question is not A or B.

Other options to financing and supplying health care are left as an exercise.  :eek:

Offline Suave

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« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2004, 09:41:02 AM »
All military hospitals are public hospitals. When I worked at BAMC during peacetime about %80 of the patients were civilians. A lot of times we didn't have any military patients. And I would say that about %25-35 of the caregiver staff was civilian also. It's not the quality that would be the problem with socialized medicine, it's that   the enormous cost would be unsustainable.

That's just one of the many problems of having a population of 250 million. The majority of patients in this country are elderly, because of the gift of modern medicine many peoples' bodies are outlasting their minds. When we have cured geriatric dementia and alzheimers it will lift a great burden from the system.

Offline Suave

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« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2004, 09:56:56 AM »
About ERs.
I think a lot of people don't realize that going to the ER is like waiting in line at the club. Patients in the ER are waiting for a vacancy to open up in the hospital so that they can get a bed. I find the average medical patient spends 6-12 hours in the ER before they get to their hospital bed. You see corporations and to some extent doctors like to get paid. So in their view an empty hospital bed is costing them money. So they like to keep fascilities full all the time.

And as far as a shortage of nurses, that's not quite true. Yes most often floors are short staffed, but that's not because there are not enough employable nurses in the job market. It's because the corporations staff the floors with the lowest number of employees legally possible. And eventualities like calling in sick, and scheduling mistakes often leave floors short staffed. Next time you're in the hospital take a look at the ID badges of the people taking care of you, or just ask them. Odds are that about 25% of them aren't employees of the hospital, they are agency nurses.

Offline medicboy

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« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2004, 12:05:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Goth
Medicboy, don't take this the wrong way.

I think a lot of problems extend from hospitals charging waaaaaay too much money to the people that have insurance and can pay their way. Look at doctors wages, nurse wages and even the wages of ambulance/emergency responders.

Doctors in all truth could cut their pay in half and still live nicely. However, one reason they charge so much is because of malpractice suits.

Nurses, skilled and educated as they are, are paid a heck of a lot of money. Why, because there is a shortage?

First responders, paid too much. You probably think I have no business talking about that, but in all actuality, I could have taken the EMT test after leaving the military and become one, but there is no way in hell I want to do that work. Is there a shortage of EMT's? I don't think so, but there is a lotta BS to put up as one.

Hospital equipment-outrageous costs and equally outrageous billings. This year alone I went through 4 MRI's, and if I had not had insurance I would have been a huge burden on someone else because those little 20 min tests are expensive....too expensive.

The whole health care system is fubar, and it starts with CEO's making too much. It might very well becoe federalised, and God help us if it does, but until prices come down I don't see it getting better. The industry needs to start self regulating itself.


Not taken the wrong way but I have a few statements.

1:  There is a BIG diference between an EMT and a Paramedic.  For the most part a basic EMT is a 1 semester course and covers basic-mid level first aid and basic scene management.  There is no indepth A&P, and no invasive skills.   They prolly do get paid a fair wage for 3 months of education and the risk involved.  I am a paramedic.  Becoming licenced as a paramedic takes 2+ years in most cases and in those 2 years there is about 4 years of college level corses crammed together.  It is not just a supplement intended for fire fighters and cops (as the basic EMT course is intended)  it is a profession.  I am able to do things that only a MD can do in the hospital.  I can make judgement calls and give meds with out consulting an MD (unlike nurses).  I am almost always the one in charge of a medical scene because I am almost always the one with the most training.  If I mess up there is a good chance that someone dies.  So what is that worth???  For someone with all that training and 12 years experience here in Montana I make $9/hr with no benifits, not even vacation.  Is that over paid???????????

2:  My wife is an RN, she has spent her entire career in the ER and currently the ICU.  She has a 2 year degree and about 8 years of total experience and she makes $21/hr with nice benefits.  DO I think she is over paid??  No, She works very hard and earns every dime.

3:  MD's:  Have  you any Idea how much of their lives these people give up???  I also work as a Tele tech at the local hospital and see how often they get called in, woke up and bothered  when it come to their pt's in the hospital.  60 hrs a week is a vacation.    They might be over paid but not that much.

4:  How much hospitals charge...   Ok going to try to keep this simple.   Say Burger King is a hospital.  They are mandated by law to give everyone who asks for food what ever they want and can't ask for payment at that time, they have to take info which might be real or not and bill later.  As a consiquince huge numbers of people go there to eat and they only get on average 30% of what they bill.  SO for a whopper value meal  they usualy charge say.... $3.00.  But soon they realize they are only collecting on average $0.90.  Less than they pay for the stuff to make the meal.  They have to raise the price to $10.00 so that they get their average $3.00 per meal and don't lose money...  That is the price you pay for those that don't pay for them selves, you want the service to be there when you need it, so those that can pay have to pay for those that can't or wont.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2004, 12:21:52 PM by medicboy »

Offline medicboy

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« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2004, 12:25:27 PM »
Ok and the MRI's....  Ya the test only took 20 min, and the tech that took the pictures only made $8-10/hr, but that MRI machine cost the hospital about $1 million.   They would never pay for that if they charged $100 per test would they???

Most hospitals are privet companies, they can't keep giving and giving and not get paid for their services can they???  Hence the Burger King anology.