Author Topic: 190A/F boosts  (Read 3377 times)

Offline GODO

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2004, 05:51:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
You guys have any specific questions?  


Just give him a big salute from a 190 fan.

Offline Crumpp

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2004, 08:33:26 PM »
What a great conversation!  Learned some great stuff and raised some new questions.  Don't want to get too detailed as I am writing a book.

Little background.  This guy has plenty of confirmed kills.  He flew Me-109's from the beginning up until the Bf-109G6.  From there he transferred over to the FW-190A8 in 1944.  His "training" on the FW was an orientation to the cockpit and a circuit around the field.  He then took off and flew his first combat mission in the type.  No additional training and no pilots manual.

On fighting the airplane:

He primarily TURNFOUGHT Mustangs, Yaks, and La 5's.  Spitfires he fought in the vertical.  None of them were a problem for the FW-190A in the dogfight.

Aileron adjustment was extremely important to the turn performance of the type.  There are THREE different ailerons that can be mounted on the FW-190A.  Each has different hinge type and different performance.  All were the pilot's choice to have mounted.  He named the ones he preferred.

Additionally his crew chief would mount the ailerons with a spacer, which gave them additional height.  This came from a FW Technical bulletin.  Said it helped with low speed performance.

On the Flaps:

He did not mention the exact speed.  I will press him for that later.  He was in a very talkative mood but is not completely comfortable with English.  Between my German and his English though the points were made.

He did use them in every engagement that he turned.  They did decrease the turn rate considerably.  

On the Prop:

The FW-190A8 had three props available for pilot use.  Again it was the pilots choice.  He preferred the broad chord wooden propeller.  Said it had more flex and he felt it gave more of a bite in the air during low speed maneuvering.  

Normal Metal Prop - VDM 9-16176A
Wide Chord Wooden Prop - VDM 9-12157H3

Manual mentions some others, anybody got any info on this?

On the boost systems:

GM-1, MW-50, and C3 "emergency power" were ALL used on the FW-190A.  The FW-190A8 was rated for 1.58ata/1.65ata for 10 minutes.  He also mentioned another alcohol based boost system but I need more information from him on it.  MW30 perhaps, I wrote the name down and it is not an MW system.  I am thinking an EW system similar to the later 109's.

GM-1 and MW-50 were more common than we would believe.  This is confirmed by Dr Timken who has several of the systems laying around his hanger and they are listed on the FW-190 parts catalog.  Anyway, I have more interviews with him later.

Surprised to learn on the boost systems though was:

He never used them!  The alcohol based system took almost 3 minutes to develop power.  He said bullets were much faster than all the boost systems.  Roll and shallow dive was his best maneuver when an enemy fighter got on his six.  He said the FW-190A8's dive acceleration would slam you to the back of the cockpit.  He also said the acceleration when the second stage supercharger gear kicked in was very noticeable.  Sounded like a modern automatic transmission.  The supercharger would whine for a few seconds and followed by a "clunk" as the gear engaged.  Then the acceleration would push you back.

He mentioned several times "I feared no Mustang."   Looking at his record, I have no doubt he did not!

Oh he mentioned he always performed a 3 point landing and take off in the FW-190.  Said prop strikes were common if you did not.

Crumpp

Offline moot

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2004, 11:25:02 PM »
now get him to play AH2.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Crumpp

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2004, 06:17:46 AM »
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now get him to play AH2.


:p

I don't think he is interested....

Crumpp

Offline MiloMorai

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2004, 06:31:49 AM »
"he mentioned he always performed a 3 point landing and take off in the FW-190. Said prop strikes were common if you did not. "

That was normal procedure for the 190 family.

Offline Crumpp

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2004, 07:20:30 AM »
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That was normal procedure for the 190 family.


I'll pass that along to him Milo.....

He felt it important to emphasis this aspect of the FW-190.

Crumpp

Offline MiloMorai

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2004, 07:48:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
I'll pass that along to him Milo.....

He felt it important to emphasis this aspect of the FW-190.

Crumpp


Why? He already knows that. Your post came across as only he did it.

Offline Crumpp

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2004, 08:01:33 AM »
Quote
Milo says:
Why? He already knows that. Your post came across as only he did it.



Where?

Quote
Oh he mentioned he always performed a 3 point landing and take off in the FW-190. Said prop strikes were common if you did not.


Crumpp

Offline MiloMorai

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2004, 09:12:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
Where?
Crumpp


"he mentioned he always performed a 3 point landing and take off"

I don't see any we, as in all us 190 pilots did so.

Offline joeblogs

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book etc
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2004, 12:26:09 PM »
This is good stuff. What will your book be about?

-Blogs


Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
What a great conversation!  Learned some great stuff and raised some new questions.  Don't want to get too detailed as I am writing a book.

Little background.  This guy has plenty of confirmed kills.  He flew Me-109's from the beginning up until the Bf-109G6.  From there he transferred over to the FW-190A8 in 1944.  His "training" on the FW was an orientation to the cockpit and a circuit around the field.  He then took off and flew his first combat mission in the type.  No additional training and no pilots manual.

On fighting the airplane:

He primarily TURNFOUGHT Mustangs, Yaks, and La 5's.  Spitfires he fought in the vertical.  None of them were a problem for the FW-190A in the dogfight.

Aileron adjustment was extremely important to the turn performance of the type.  There are THREE different ailerons that can be mounted on the FW-190A.  Each has different hinge type and different performance.  All were the pilot's choice to have mounted.  He named the ones he preferred.

Additionally his crew chief would mount the ailerons with a spacer, which gave them additional height.  This came from a FW Technical bulletin.  Said it helped with low speed performance.

On the Flaps:

He did not mention the exact speed.  I will press him for that later.  He was in a very talkative mood but is not completely comfortable with English.  Between my German and his English though the points were made.

He did use them in every engagement that he turned.  They did decrease the turn rate considerably.  

On the Prop:

The FW-190A8 had three props available for pilot use.  Again it was the pilots choice.  He preferred the broad chord wooden propeller.  Said it had more flex and he felt it gave more of a bite in the air during low speed maneuvering.  

Normal Metal Prop - VDM 9-16176A
Wide Chord Wooden Prop - VDM 9-12157H3

Manual mentions some others, anybody got any info on this?

On the boost systems:

GM-1, MW-50, and C3 "emergency power" were ALL used on the FW-190A.  The FW-190A8 was rated for 1.58ata/1.65ata for 10 minutes.  He also mentioned another alcohol based boost system but I need more information from him on it.  MW30 perhaps, I wrote the name down and it is not an MW system.  I am thinking an EW system similar to the later 109's.

GM-1 and MW-50 were more common than we would believe.  This is confirmed by Dr Timken who has several of the systems laying around his hanger and they are listed on the FW-190 parts catalog.  Anyway, I have more interviews with him later.

Surprised to learn on the boost systems though was:

He never used them!  The alcohol based system took almost 3 minutes to develop power.  He said bullets were much faster than all the boost systems.  Roll and shallow dive was his best maneuver when an enemy fighter got on his six.  He said the FW-190A8's dive acceleration would slam you to the back of the cockpit.  He also said the acceleration when the second stage supercharger gear kicked in was very noticeable.  Sounded like a modern automatic transmission.  The supercharger would whine for a few seconds and followed by a "clunk" as the gear engaged.  Then the acceleration would push you back.

He mentioned several times "I feared no Mustang."   Looking at his record, I have no doubt he did not!

Oh he mentioned he always performed a 3 point landing and take off in the FW-190.  Said prop strikes were common if you did not.

Crumpp

Offline GODO

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2004, 01:32:35 PM »
Outstanding info, Crumpp. !

Offline Crumpp

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2004, 01:49:28 PM »
Quote
I don't see any we, as in all us 190 pilots did so.


Milo,

It a BBS, you can't profess to understand peoples emotional states for the information posted here and those "emotioncons" are a very poor substitute for body language and eye contact.

I used "He" because I was talking to "him", not "we".  He used first person because he flew the plane.

Quote
This is good stuff. What will your book be about?


In general it will be about the FW-190A and the history of the Air War concentrating on the tactical level fighter to fighter combat.

The book will concentrate primarily on the later versions of the FW-190A.  The early development and early varients have already been covered well.

Crumpp

Offline niklas

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2004, 02:37:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
Niklas mentions that it took sometime before it was used in both stages. If he still reads this forum maybe he will clarify.



Hi

This topic is covered very well the last time. Just search around. There´s even info around that states that the extra boost could be used without fuel injection.

Engine development was still very fast in the last period of war, due to the pressure of enemy engine development, so docs that where published at this time may have been outdated three month later.

I said it took some time because the note from BMW seemed to be very "fresh" in my doc, so i expected some time to pass until the new clearance would see effect for the production.

niklas

Offline MiloMorai

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2004, 02:56:20 PM »
All I did was expand on what your pilot said because you said NOTHING about what other pilots did....  LOL, you are writing a book Crumpp?:rolleyes:

Offline Crumpp

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190A/F boosts
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2004, 02:57:08 PM »
Quote
This topic is covered very well the last time. Just search around. There´s even info around that states that the extra boost could be used without fuel injection.


Yes, thanks for helping out Niklas.  Same questions keep popping up.

 
Quote
He never used them! The alcohol based system took almost 3 minutes to develop power.



He did use 1.58ata/1.65ata since the FW-190A8 was rated for those manifold pressures for 10 minutes.  This did not require any outside "boost" system.  A "rated" motor could use full manifold pressure for 10 minutes. This power is also instanteneous.  Move the throttle and the pressure increases.

I don't know about the alcohol based systems, However, C3 "emergency power" added NO additional manifold pressure.  It simply allowed the motor to operate at it's highest manifold pressure rating for a longer period of time.

Crumpp