Author Topic: Gun jam option, perhaps?  (Read 1165 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2001, 01:43:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Tac:


On the good hand though, US does have good television    


Now THAT'S debatable! (However, Discovery, Wings Discovery, and History channel are very good)

Offline Mayhem

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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2001, 02:06:00 PM »
     
Quote
Originally posted by Tac:
That was not nice Mayhem.

Fact: The A-Bomb was developed from Einstein's theory. Einstein was German. Most of the scientists that made the bomb possible were refugee or recent immigrants into the US (most fleeing from war torn europe).

The man US put on the Moon was there thanks to a GERMAN rocket scientist that the US captured after the war was over.

News for you: The Russians were first in Space. They also currently hold the record for having the only almost permanently manned object in space: MIR (which the US loves to throw negative propaganda at... they hate how they screwed up with SKYLAB).

"plus we had the nards to use it! twice"

Yeah, I can see your delight in the use of weapons of mass destruction on civilians. Mustve been a great challenge for the US military then. How sickening.

In short: ALLIED OPPORTUNISTS *grin*

On the good hand though, US does have good television        

Back on topic:

Gun jams would be fun to have, digital ammo counters should be removed (it MAY cure the spray and pray) and the N1k and CHOG should be perked (albeit, cheap perks). My personal view on these perks is that they shouldnt be perked due to popularity, but due to unbalancing factors. Any snapshot killing plane only encourages poor acm'ing, quaking and worst of all, if HTC adds early war planes no one will fly them because they would be facing late war monsters that spew turbolaser hispano around like lies at a political rally.

I applaud HTC for perking the CHOG. Im tired of shooting down the same plane over and over and over and over. Its a blue version of the energizer bunny!                

[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 01-09-2001).]

I knew someone would bring that at up they weren't the only ones to work on those projects and ya mite want to pay attention to whats on the statue of liberty. both of them became US citizens and I don't know many people that can claim there family was here for more then 400 years except native americans.

We still got to the moon no one else has.

I made the comment about the A-bomb in response to the "american gear was inferor wonder weapon" remarks sorry you took it to poorly and sorry I didn't buffer it a bit (I rarely ever water anything down Iam typicaly rude or crude sorry this I will admit).
About the A-bomb issue how many more people woulda lost there lives if we had invaded mainland japan both US and Japanesse lives. More people where killed in the fire bombing of tokyo then both atomic bombs combined and had we actually decided to invade we proably would have ended up back in the depression due to the loss of lives and resources. Not mention japan would have been depopulated in the worlds bloodiest battle ever. Serously think about How many japanese do think would have died if the fire bombings continued and american ground forces had invaded, mix that in with the racial tension and the desire to end the war ASAP. The US would have taken decades to recover, Japan would have never have recovered, drag russia into and you have the possabilaty of Japan being a communist 3rd world declining country. Drag the UK into it and you add even more injury to an already over stressed country that had to take the full burden of the war from day one. and I wount even touch what the japanese did to the chinese people and philipino people. Look what happened to germany at the end of two world wars. There country got broke in two for around 50 years. Got a better solution to end a conflict of that scale that wouldn't result in even more bloodshed and loss of life.

Least I had balls enough to serve in the Military. And getting back to WWII if the US had stayed out all of Europe including the Uk would be Nazi controlled. The entire jewish comunity would have been murdered off.

Hell you're from florida you don't even know how to punch a whole in a piece of paper in a voting booth. Bet youre a flaimin libral that cried about wanting the 10 commandments removed from Courthouses to boot.

You know what makes me sick people that constantly Attack the U.S. it's military and it's service men and women. and thats Excatly how I took your response. If I insulted you in some way with that post Iam sorry.

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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
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[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-09-2001).]
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LJK Raubvogel

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2001, 02:23:00 PM »
Mayhem, take your pills, and go lie down for a while. I didn't see anyone in this entire thread demean any US service members.

 
Quote
Im tired of shooting down the same plane over
                   and over and over and over. Its a blue version of the energizer bunny!  

Now that's funny!! hehehe

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Offline Westy

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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2001, 02:40:00 PM »
"The man US put on the Moon was there thanks to a GERMAN rocket scientist that the US captured after the war was over."

Um allow me an intejection of a correction...

 Von Braun built upon the work of Dr Goddard. Von Braun read and copied everything and yes he then improved on what Goddard did but then Von Braun had the Nazi government backing where as Goddard did not have any till 1941-42. And then the US gov't wanted him to develope Jato and other light weight uses for rocketry.

 -Westy
 

Offline Tac

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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2001, 02:48:00 PM »
"If I insulted you in some way with that post Iam sorry"

cc. nay worry, it just ticked me off that you seemed proud of it. =P.

BTW, i just live in florida (foreign student), and I was in Japan during the elections. Man was it hilarious! I just imagined the streets of Orlando and Miami flowing with old farts demading a recount (and THATS a disturbing thought!).

"Attack the U.S. it's military and it's service men and women"

Oh no, I just attack the pencilnecks in the government  

"pay attention to whats on the statue of liberty"

A french woman in a toga. Hmmmmmmm      


Offline RAM

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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2001, 03:23:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Mayhem:

First off all most of those you can't dictate ingame. People machines are defrrent. Fact You can make a 20cal 50cal 20mm 25mm glow red hot before it malfuntions if it's properly maintained (cleaned and lubricated). Ive even warped barrels and still been able to shoot rounds threw them.

Sure. You can do it with a M61. Not in WWII with the highly unreliable Hispano M2. So worth of this point equals to =0.


Blackouts is an issue of a persons physical condition. An out of shape person will black out faster and faster then a in shape person. Pilots typicaly do feel strain under high G's but given enough time between high G loads thier tolerance will be the same. think ive gone over this to many times on the falcon boards.

Falcon boards? lol. Modern fighters carry anti-G suits. WWII don't (P51s and P47s used them in late 1944-1945, but then again 109 pilots sat with legs near the body thus negating some G effects  ).

In WWII even the stronger pilot after 3 or 4 minutes of high G-loaded maneouvers is going to lose much of its capability. Get used to it, it was this way in World War two. So worth of this point equals to=0.

fuel mixtures, rpm, cowl flaps trim management, all of these are really unnessesry things that take away from the game. and I still have to do it threw a keyboard mouse and joystick on a monitor that only represents about 40 deg by 40 deg rather then my full vision 185 deg by 120 deg plus the abilaty to turn my head. in alot more directions then snap views alow me. want to make it real have some one put a gun to your head if you get shot down they pull the trigger thats about as real as you can get. I want real flight models not a control system that requires me to invest 1300 bucks on a vertial cockpit plus a 300 dollar hotas rig and 3 quickshot's and a PC dash. mabey in 20 years we will have the technoligy for it but most of us are running 400mhz systems 128mb ram and a voodoo 2/3 or Nvidia TNT card. some of the luckier people like me have a full hotas rig, but most people are using twisty sticks. Ive nver liked trim its about 6 more controls I have to deal with most of the time I didn't and just used kentuky windage. Some of this would be neat but would die after a while and alienate more and more players. If you got every thing you wanted you would have your very own sim unfortunetly you would be the only one playing it. Oh we can also rule out most forms of autopilot on almost every plane. did i mention you the more youplay the dumber and more experianced you would have to get if you wanted to fly jap or german planes. training would be completely out of it cuase theres no fuel for you to train with.

In short: you want realism in the things you like ,you dont want it on the things you don't. As RPM, Throttle, mixture, etc, mean you MUST pay attention to your engine instead firewalling it all night long, you come here saying that you lack the proper HOTAS.

I dont have a HOTAS, I have a CH F16 combatstic (THANKS SAW!!!  ), and rudders. When I started in Aces High, one year ago I owned a 2-button CH virtual yoke with one of the two buttons damaged. I claimed as strong as I do now for the highest realism affordable.

Worth of this point...=0  


Ammo gauges ...Have you looked into every WWII cockpit? I've seen a few and some of the US planes actually had guages for ammo or a low ammo indicator light (most did I think) it wasn't an accurate number guage like we have in AH or warbirds (Air warrior uses a pointer guage like a fuel gage) but I don't think the Fw190 even later models did either.

answer:Evidently you have never looked into a WWII warbird cockpit, or even seen a photo (I've done both if you take a Buchon as a WWII warbird). NO plane modelled in AH ever carried ammo counters, except the german ones.

Worth of your point equals to...=0.  


The gun malfunction due to heavy use sound great but realistically they wheren't that common to begin with.



buddy did you REALLY read the quote posted avobe? PLEASE take your time ,go up, and read it. It states clearly that the Hispanos in 1945 WERE JAMMING ALL DAY LONG. Especially over 15000 feet.

I think its fair to give every one a perfect sample of the plane they want to fly. I think its a good idea that a player doesn't have to spend a week learning to manage his controls and guages and spend most of his time in the air dealing with cowl flaps trim and fuel mixtures. we would have to add in they could fly for years in the game and never ever see a bandit. and those that did see a bandit would have to have spent 4 hours flying there 15 seconds of fight and another 4 hours back. most people would be lucky to get 2 kills in the first year of the game. Want to unballance the game add in kamakazi's the plane counts as 2 bombs and the 2 bombs they carry are pre armed adnd will detonate when they crash great for scenerios but not for the MA. oh ya we have night lets add in fog so you have to land by intrament alone since this is janurary thats 12 hours a day of the game.



first, yes, its unfair to give everyone a perfect sample of the plane in question. That does work against the planes that historically had two of the best advantages possible in a real life combat: Pilot workload reduced to almost nil, and complete trust in your machine because you know it will never fail.

Fw190 was one of the finest engineerign pieces of WWII, the best of its breed because allowed the pilot to FIGHT exclusively, not having to guide his ride across the sky. It was a HUGE advantage for the 190 on its day and we dont have it here.

And about Hispanos...its all said and quoted. HTC should take note of that quote. Believe me its MUCH better to AH to model true performing Hispanos with jammings ,poor ballistics due to mixed ammo, etc, that to perk the F4U1-C. That way the 20% of kills will never repeat itself: why? because the cannons wont allow spray and praying and 20 second bursts.

Perking the F4U1-Ct, BTW, will do a lot of good for the game itself   but I think the realistic guns are better  

lazs

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2001, 03:44:00 PM »
I am hundreds of miles from home but will give the source when i get home... The civilian head of armement programs for the British said that the hispanos after the first mk 1's were extremely reliable as were American hispanos.   He also claimed that german electric fired guns were inherently less reliable than conventional primers.  

I will get the actuall numbers but reliability for the hispanos was on the order of no failures for thousands of rounds.  British ammo, both brass and powder was not as good tho as american and the british guns had the chamber shortened to make up for "crushing" of the cases and subsequent light firing pin strikes.
lazs

Offline Toad

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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2001, 03:56:00 PM »
Ram: "In WWII even the stronger pilot after 3 or 4 minutes of high G-loaded maneouvers is going to lose much of its capability. Get used to it, it was this way in World War two."

Define "high G-loaded" please. Continuous 3G? 4G? 6G? or varying between all of these?


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Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2001, 04:03:00 PM »
gun jam...I have 8 of them ... go ahead.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline RAM

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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2001, 04:03:00 PM »
Lazs, read the quote avobe written. I've read that same thing more than once and twice, in spanish edited books.

The hispano reliability problem happened with the american version. Dont try to cover behind british data. The M2 HISPANO was unreliable as late as in 1945. Period.

Toad, all G moves, if done long enough are to exhaust any pilot sooner or later. Even 3 G turns (relatively low), with no G-suit, and done enough times in a row will end with the pilot breathless and falling out of conscience.

Of course the higher the G, the less endurance the pilot has.



Offline Toad

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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2001, 04:12:00 PM »
Well, I'm referring specifically to your quote about "3-4 minutes of high G loaded maneuvers".

What are you calling high g? 2G? 4G? 6G? What?

The time limit you specify is 3-4 minutes, so I don't think this statement: Ram: " all G moves if done long enough are to exhaust any pilot sooner or later."

is really a player until you define the G load. 3-4 minutes at 1.5G? at 2G? at 3G? at 6G? What are you trying to say here?

I'd also like to ask you your reference for this statement:

"Even 3 G turns (relatively low), with no G-suit, and done enough times in a row will end with the pilot breathless and falling out of conscience."

Is this from personal experience?

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Daff

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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2001, 04:14:00 PM »
G-suits only add an extra G or so..the rest is down to proper anti-G-straining techniques and G-tolerance (something you automaticly increase, if you get continually exposed to G's).

Daff

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[This message has been edited by Daff (edited 01-09-2001).]

Offline Mayhem

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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2001, 04:17:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:
Sure. You can do it with a M61. Not in WWII with the highly unreliable Hispano M2. So worth of this point equals to =0.


Blackouts is an issue of a persons physical condition. An out of shape person will black out faster and faster then a in shape person. Pilots typicaly do feel strain under high G's but given enough time between high G loads thier tolerance will be the same. think ive gone over this to many times on the falcon boards.

Falcon boards? lol. Modern fighters carry anti-G suits. WWII don't (P51s and P47s used them in late 1944-1945, but then again 109 pilots sat with legs near the body thus negating some G effects    ).

In WWII even the stronger pilot after 3 or 4 minutes of high G-loaded maneouvers is going to lose much of its capability. Get used to it, it was this way in World War two. So worth of this point equals to=0.

fuel mixtures, rpm, cowl flaps trim management, all of these are really unnessesry things that take away from the game. and I still have to do it threw a keyboard mouse and joystick on a monitor that only represents about 40 deg by 40 deg rather then my full vision 185 deg by 120 deg plus the abilaty to turn my head. in alot more directions then snap views alow me. want to make it real have some one put a gun to your head if you get shot down they pull the trigger thats about as real as you can get. I want real flight models not a control system that requires me to invest 1300 bucks on a vertial cockpit plus a 300 dollar hotas rig and 3 quickshot's and a PC dash. mabey in 20 years we will have the technoligy for it but most of us are running 400mhz systems 128mb ram and a voodoo 2/3 or Nvidia TNT card. some of the luckier people like me have a full hotas rig, but most people are using twisty sticks. Ive nver liked trim its about 6 more controls I have to deal with most of the time I didn't and just used kentuky windage. Some of this would be neat but would die after a while and alienate more and more players. If you got every thing you wanted you would have your very own sim unfortunetly you would be the only one playing it. Oh we can also rule out most forms of autopilot on almost every plane. did i mention you the more youplay the dumber and more experianced you would have to get if you wanted to fly jap or german planes. training would be completely out of it cuase theres no fuel for you to train with.

In short: you want realism in the things you like ,you dont want it on the things you don't. As RPM, Throttle, mixture, etc, mean you MUST pay attention to your engine instead firewalling it all night long, you come here saying that you lack the proper HOTAS.

I dont have a HOTAS, I have a CH F16 combatstic (THANKS SAW!!!    ), and rudders. When I started in Aces High, one year ago I owned a 2-button CH virtual yoke with one of the two buttons damaged. I claimed as strong as I do now for the highest realism affordable.

Worth of this point...=0    


Ammo gauges ...Have you looked into every WWII cockpit? I've seen a few and some of the US planes actually had guages for ammo or a low ammo indicator light (most did I think) it wasn't an accurate number guage like we have in AH or warbirds (Air warrior uses a pointer guage like a fuel gage) but I don't think the Fw190 even later models did either.

answer:Evidently you have never looked into a WWII warbird cockpit, or even seen a photo (I've done both if you take a Buchon as a WWII warbird). NO plane modelled in AH ever carried ammo counters, except the german ones.

Worth of your point equals to...=0.  


The gun malfunction due to heavy use sound great but realistically they wheren't that common to begin with.



buddy did you REALLY read the quote posted avobe? PLEASE take your time ,go up, and read it. It states clearly that the Hispanos in 1945 WERE JAMMING ALL DAY LONG. Especially over 15000 feet.

I think its fair to give every one a perfect sample of the plane they want to fly. I think its a good idea that a player doesn't have to spend a week learning to manage his controls and guages and spend most of his time in the air dealing with cowl flaps trim and fuel mixtures. we would have to add in they could fly for years in the game and never ever see a bandit. and those that did see a bandit would have to have spent 4 hours flying there 15 seconds of fight and another 4 hours back. most people would be lucky to get 2 kills in the first year of the game. Want to unballance the game add in kamakazi's the plane counts as 2 bombs and the 2 bombs they carry are pre armed adnd will detonate when they crash great for scenerios but not for the MA. oh ya we have night lets add in fog so you have to land by intrament alone since this is janurary thats 12 hours a day of the game.



first, yes, its unfair to give everyone a perfect sample of the plane in question. That does work against the planes that historically had two of the best advantages possible in a real life combat: Pilot workload reduced to almost nil, and complete trust in your machine because you know it will never fail.

Fw190 was one of the finest engineerign pieces of WWII, the best of its breed because allowed the pilot to FIGHT exclusively, not having to guide his ride across the sky. It was a HUGE advantage for the 190 on its day and we dont have it here.

And about Hispanos...its all said and quoted. HTC should take note of that quote. Believe me its MUCH better to AH to model true performing Hispanos with jammings ,poor ballistics due to mixed ammo, etc, that to perk the F4U1-C. That way the 20% of kills will never repeat itself: why? because the cannons wont allow spray and praying and 20 second bursts.

Perking the F4U1-Ct, BTW, will do a lot of good for the game itself     but I think the realistic guns are better    

Don't think Ive ever heard of an M61 a m60 yes. The ma duce (m2) is a 50 caliber browning the same one they put in US WWII air craft and the same as we use today. Every fire one? i don't want a quote I want hard true DOD statistics on the failer rate. excluding malfuntions due to poor maintance lubercation poor ammo care poor loading or inccorect spaceing and timming.

G tolernce and recovery have nothing to do with g-suits. Typically it means if you give it a few seconds or up to a few minutes you can pull as many G's as did before provided you never made gloc. all a gsuit does is force blood up to your brain to keep you from suffering Gloc. with gloc where not talking temporory blindness blindness where talking you went to sleep got knocked out, your out cold ect.

I thought this was a wwII mass multiplayer combat flight simulator not flight simm 2000, where even taxiing the runway is a chore. Some of those feature I like but not in this enviroment. Your in the monority here. Like I said I like those options just not here.

yes I think your plane should represent the perfect ::whatever your plane is:: without malfunctions. imagine the gripe fest that would be if peoples guns jam, thier wings fall off. thier engine die ect. again your in the minority.

the issue with the f4u1c is basically you got your butt blown away by one, your pissed and you want the plane banned. personally i think Ive been shot down by evey plane in the game. I don't want any of them banned or perked. Ive heard these gripes in all the other games and I will hear them in all the future ones. What will every one say if for the next two weeks every one wanted to fly say spitfires or zekes. with a minority of people (say 5%) that where flying another plane or planes. what you want to ban them or perk them out? I say leave well enough alone and just add more aircraft instead of limiting the curent set. I realy don't think this game has enough Air craft in it as is. Theres also people that lean to Theater of operations over another ETO or PTO. I'll admit I really lean towards PTO. In my honest opinion I think they should jsut have a late war f4u with the option to choice you guns (4-20mm, 2-20mm with 2-50cals, 4-50cals and 6-50cals). Iam willing to bet the f4u1c will fall back abit once the novalty of carriers whares off.

You want AH to be what you want it to be. hell I do to. Unfortunetly it doesn't work that way for either of us unless we make our games (I'de to e able to as iam sure you are but we probably both can't). on a personal not i don't like constatly making adjustments to controll settings and I hate being force to figet with the nobs and controlls on the inside of my cockpit. thats me. I mean there things i feel that are wrong like troop alt (should be 500 feet we do it in airborne school). I think some of speeds are off (never gotten my f4u to the magic 417mph). theres also limitations both on your hardware as well as in the code and at the server.

If you have a problem with the f4u1c learn to defeat it, rather then go on the witch hunt to get it porked perked or outright removed.

Again fact is you got your but kicked buy it you don't like it and you want it killed. Iam sorry your no the best player, Iam sorry you can't learn to defeat it, and Iam sorry you're wants don't come before every one elses.

------------------
Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"

[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-09-2001).]
"Destination anywhere! So Far Gone, I'm almost There."
The Damned! (Est. 1988) Damned if we do - No fun if we don't!
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline RAM

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2001, 04:35:00 PM »
Toad the 3-4 minutes of high G exposure is meant to be between 3-4G in not very well prepared individuals.

 The exposure to higher Gs than those are much more pronounced in Aces High, at least in the TnB birds, because the pilot doesnt suffer for the forces as in real life.

I've never pulled Gs piloting a plane...but if you go in a rollercoaster you notice how hard can get to raise the hands. THe Gs involved never go over 2-3Gs, and it ends with you putting a feet on the land feeling disoriented, and a bit tired. No disorientation in AH. no tiring in AH. Only pulling a stick you cant feel what it is in real life.

About the personal evidence...lol I wish I had it. But for reading quotes, WWII stuff and aviation stuff in general, one really ends knowing something...not much, stil...something.

Mayhem only three things

the Hispano M2 is NOT (i repeat NOT) the 12.7mm colt MG. It is a completely different weapon. So stop it dead on tracks because you seem to be talking about a completely different thing that I am doing.

the M61 is the standard six-barreled gatling 20mm gun aboard virtually all the cannon-armed planes in the US inventory (I can think only about the A-10 as a cannon bird with different cannon). I advice you to read some more aviation stuff    

And about the F4U1-C hell no, I dont die by far as I get kills on the Chogs.

it is simply that Its getting old to see the same bird everywhere and the same 1K spray and praying roadkill tactic. If you can't understand it...well. Better for you    

BTW I dont want to see the Chog perked. I want the american Hispanos performing as the sources say they did in WWII: So bad and awful that the navy turned back into the 50 cals until the WWII had ended.



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-09-2001).]

Offline Toad

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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2001, 04:44:00 PM »
Ram,

Just so I'm sure I understand you then:

If I go out and do 3-4 minutes of 3-4G maneuvers in an aircraft, without a G-suit, I will "lose much of its (my) capability"?

Further, you are telling me (based upon reading books about WW2) that if I do 3-4 minutes of 3-4G maneuvers without a G-suit I will end up unconscious?

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!