Author Topic: Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?  (Read 1592 times)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2004, 07:31:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
It becomes even smarter if someone has a same name as someone whos 'suspected' of 'suspicious' activities and therefore put on the no-fly list.
Even more so if theres more people with the same name.... yay!


I don't get it though.. why are people banned from flights, without their knowledge and without any kind of court ruling?

Doesn't sound like freedom to me..  I'd be very damn pissed off I would suddenly find out I'm not allowed to board a plane and nobody has told about it to me, let alone having had a chance to defend myself against this 'punishment'.


No-fly decisions made without any law suits or so, undeclared detainees, torturing of detainees, detainees held for years without charges or chance to meet a lawyer... and so on..

Does anyone understand where this kind of actions are leading to?
Facism.


He wasn't told he could not fly, he was told he could not enter the United States. Every nation has the right to control their borders.

By the way, the word is not spelled Facism . If you are going to make stupid baseless accusations, at least learn to spell the word correctly.:rolleyes:
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Muckmaw1

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2004, 07:39:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
but trust this admin for their decision to turn his plane around


But but....the people on the internet MUST know more than the government, right?

There could not have been any good cause here...right?

I mean, all this homeland security stuff is just a silly political move!

Terrorists don't represent a threat to the US.

That's just Rediscjulus!!!

Offline Fishu

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2004, 07:49:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
He wasn't told he could not fly, he was told he could not enter the United States. Every nation has the right to control their borders.

By the way, the word is not spelled Facism . If you are going to make stupid baseless accusations, at least learn to spell the word correctly.:rolleyes:


Nuh huh.. excuse me for speaking english at all.


Besides what does borders have to do with it, when even americans are on the list?
In my opinion it violates their right and freedom, since there are innocent people on the list - like people with same name as some 'suspect'
Alot of people are on the no-fly list solely because of being 'suspected' and without their knowledge.
Would be nice to suddenly find out at the airport you're on the list.. wouldn't it? It could happen.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2004, 07:56:43 AM by Fishu »

Offline midnight Target

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2004, 08:15:08 AM »
The plane was being followed by a moon shadow, moon shadow moon shadow. It was leaping and hopping on a moon shadow. Moon shadow moon shadow.

Offline Ripsnort

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2004, 08:34:08 AM »
Cause out on the edge of darkness, there rides a peace plane
Oh peace plane take this country, come take me home again

Oh peace plane sounding louder
Glide on the peace plane
Come on now peace plane
Yes, peace plane holy roller

Offline jEEZY

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2004, 08:50:43 AM »
Sorry just ripped this from Lexis-Nexis, seemed on point, discuss:

Government's interest in preventing the entry of unwanted persons and effects is at its zenith at the international border. Time and again, we have stated that "searches made at the border, pursuant to the longstanding right of the sovereign to protect itself by stopping and examining persons and property crossing into this country, are reasonable simply by virtue of the fact that they occur at the border." United States v. Ramsey, 431 U.S. 606, 616, 52 L. Ed. 2d 617, 97 S. Ct. 1972 (1977). HN3 Congress,  [***8]  since the beginning of our Government, "has granted the Executive plenary authority to conduct routine searches and seizures at the border, without probable cause or a warrant, in order to regulate the collection of duties and to prevent the introduction of contraband into this country." United States v. Montoya de Hernandez, 473 U.S. 531, 537, 87 L. Ed. 2d 381, 105 S. Ct. 3304 (citing Ramsey, supra, at 616-617, 52 L. Ed. 2d 617, 97 S. Ct. 1972 (citing Act of July 31, 1789, ch 5, 1 Stat 29)). The modern statute that authorized the search in this case, 46 Stat 747, 19 U.S.C. § 1581(a)[19 USCS § 1581(a)], n1 derived from a  [**317]  statute passed [*1586]  by the First Congress, the Act of Aug. 4, 1790, ch 35, § 31, 1 Stat 164, see United States v. Villamonte-Marquez, 462 U.S. 579, 584, 77 L. Ed. 2d 22, 103 S. Ct. 2573 (1983), and reflects the "impressive historical pedigree" of the Government's power and interest, id., at 585, 77 L. Ed. 2d 22, 103 S. Ct. 2573. HN4 It is axiomatic that the United States, as sovereign, has the inherent authority to protect, and a paramount interest in protecting, its territorial integrity.

United States v. Flores-Montano, 124 S. Ct. 1582, 1585-1586 (U.S., 2004)

Offline jEEZY

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2004, 08:56:32 AM »
oh, my point, searches and seizures at borders do not have to have probable cause, never have, never will under our "juridical system."  This same notion has been extened to airport security as well, for plainly obvious reasons.  This sort of self-protective measure is not a violation of anybodies "rights."

I would address the ambiguity of the "rights" argument in general (becuase every law violates somebodies rights, e.g. statutes making stealing impermissable violate a thiefs "right" to steal), but that would be seriously off-topic.

Offline Ripsnort

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2004, 09:05:19 AM »
Jeez! Way to spray the fire retardant chemical all over the burning embers of the Ameri-bashers with facts, Jeezy! ;)

Offline midnight Target

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2004, 09:08:33 AM »
Tortured metaphore alert!

Offline Sandman

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2004, 09:25:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
No sympathy for that guy from me.

He pledged a good chunk of money for the killing of Rushdie.

What a Tard he ended up becoming.


It's a bit of a stretch from what I've read...

Quote
His comments in 1989 concerning Salman Rushdie after the publication of Rushdie's novel The Satanic Verses provoked controversy. During this time period an Islamic fatwa (religious ruling) was issued, holding that it was an obligation of Muslims to kill Salman Rushdie. Yusuf Islam publicly stated that Rushdie was indeed guilty of blasphemy against Islam, and Rushdie deserved to be killed. This led to a public outcry, and a drop in record sales. In response to this criticism, Yusuf Islam has since clarified that he believes that a death sentence can only be carried out by the authority of a court in an Islamic society, and that he is opposed to anyone taking the law into their own hands by murdering Rushdie.
sand

Offline Muckmaw1

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2004, 09:27:07 AM »
Point...Jeezy.

Good post.

Offline jEEZY

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2004, 09:31:40 AM »
* the sound of crickets from the other side of the aisle *

Offline jEEZY

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2004, 09:33:27 AM »
Point of reference that was an opinion by Reinquist, for a unanimous court (yes even Ginsberg and Stevens agreed with Scalia and Thomas on this one)

Offline Ripsnort

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2004, 09:34:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by jEEZY
* the sound of crickets from the other side of the aisle *



Offline SOB

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Cat Stevens, Threat to National Security?
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2004, 09:34:22 AM »
A couple more complete stories, one background story by BBC News, and another on the incident by ABC News.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3679808.stm
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040921_2381.html

He certainly doesn't seem to present himself as a threat.  But I suppose without real info on why they barred him from the country it's impossible to know if it's just more overreaction or if there actually was a reason to keep him from entering the country.

As far as his rights are concerned though, please.  He's not a US citizen, and denying him entry into the US is hardly fascism.
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