Author Topic: Question for 190 pilots (Read 983 times)

AKFokerFoder+ · « **on:** September 22, 2004, 11:47:21 AM »

With the new eny system limiting the planes we can fly, I have been looking into the 190A8. Awesome guns package. I have noticed that a lot of people seem to like the A5.

Questions:

What is the pro con from the A8 A5? That is why would you want to choose one over the other. Keep in mind that I do not attack vehicles or ground targets (other than field ack), I strictly dogfight.

Will either model outturn (or at least turn with) a LA7 or Pony D?

GODO · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2004, 12:06:55 PM »

None of them can really turn with La7, but they will turn with any P51 (flaps up) at speeds above 250 mph and below 500 mph. 190A8 is a bit faster on the deck while having lower substained climb rate, 190A8 has also better endurance. Take into consideration that 190s are not turners, you should use the vertical as long as you can or afford not more than 1 180 degree turn if you are slower than 300 mph. If you plan to get into a turn fight, be sure to have room (alt) to recover 300 mph or more, because in these cases you'll probably end recurring to violent scissors and you dont want to start them low and slow.

AKFokerFoder+ · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2004, 02:04:00 PM »

I don't plan on turn fighting per se. It is just that if you can drag a P51 or a LA7 away from the fight, it is nice to be close to par with plane performance when you turn back to take them out.

A lot of bunny pilots fly the LA7/P51 (note that does not mean all pilots who fly these planes are bunny pilots). If you can drag them away from the flight you can kill them fairly easily.

GODO · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2004, 02:36:43 PM »

190A5 and A8 are excelent rides against bunny pilots, as any other plane, with the probable exception of C47.

Flyboy · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2004, 02:56:01 PM »

how come the A8 is faster?

same engine as the A5 but much heavier
or maybe im messing things up here?

icemaw · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2004, 03:01:04 PM »

A5 is my fav 190 for furballs best turner of the 190s. Leave off the extra set of guns the extra wieght makes a real diff. I also burn off 1/3 of the bb's to lighten the nose.

Urchin · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2004, 03:25:35 PM »

None of the 190s have a chance in hell against an La-7 if the La-7 pilot is around 1/4 to 1/3rd as good as the 190 pilot.

Against the P-51, all the 190s can win if they get the P-51 slow (i.e to 150 mph or less), then take the fight vertical. A good way to do this is to get into an oblique sort of looping fight.. the P-51 will drop flaps to help him around in the loops, this will have the side effect of slowing him down. Once he is slow enough, you don't loop on your last "loop".. you go up and rope him. Scissoring will work to, but it is slightly more dicey as you have to dodge at least one shot before you can go vertical (typically).

The 190a8 is much nicer than in was in AH1, it feels almost like the Ah1 190a5 in a fight. I personally take the 2 x 20mm, 2 x 30mm because I'm usually dead or all the enemies are by the time the 30mm runs out.

GScholz · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2004, 03:42:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Flyboy
how come the A8 is faster?

same engine as the A5 but much heavier
or maybe im messing things up here?

Yes it's the same engine, but it was continuously improved so it could take more boost, just like the Merlins and the DBs.

And no, the A8 is not much heavier than the A5 with approx. the same armament and fuel load.

GODO · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2004, 03:42:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Flyboy
how come the A8 is faster?
same engine as the A5 but much heavier
or maybe im messing things up here?

A8 heavier, same engine, true, but A8 engine was rated for higher pressures. A5 was allowed for these power settings well after its introduction. BTW, AH 190A5 top speed in military is also slower than 190A8 in military setting, while both share the very same military power setting

GScholz · « **Reply #9 on:** September 22, 2004, 03:49:42 PM »

I don't think so GODO. IIRC the A5 runs at 1.32ata on MIL and 1.42ata on WEP. The A8 runs on 1.42ata on MIL and 1.58ata or 1.62ata on WEP.

Pyro has said he's going to redo the entire 190 series FM. I look forward to seeing what he changes.

Crumpp · « **Reply #10 on:** September 22, 2004, 04:33:10 PM »

In reality the FW-190A8 should be the best performing FW-190A IMO.

1. It did gain weight but it gained a lot more horsepower. The FW-190A5 wing loading for a jadg-einsatz with full wing armament is 46lbs/sq. ft.
The FW-190A8 with a full wing armament is 48lbs/sq ft and it gained 200hp.

Look at the Spitfire Mk IX (35lbs sqft) vs. the Spitfire MkXIV (40lbs sqft). The Spitfire Mk XIV turns the same radius as the Mk IX according to the tactical trials and it gained lots more wing loading with a very little increase in Hp. Both the Merlin 66 (+25) and the Griffen 65 are 2050hp engines. The Spitfire Mk XIV had a better prop and when the Griffen was approved for (+25), which I think was post war or very late war, it had a better thrust to weight.

2. The FW-190A8 had improved ailerons, elevator (they got rid of the crappy looping elevator design used in the previous models), and better props over the FW-190A5. The ailerons and elevator had different designed hinges and spacers. The FW-190A8 had three props a pilot could choose from.

A standard metal bladed prop, a wider chord wooden prop, and the really wide chord prop used on the Dora (late war).

The FW-190A5 could only use 1.42ata @ 2700U/min for 3 minutes and it still retained advantages over it's contemporary allied fighters.

The FW-190A8 Jagd-einsatz's should out zoom, out dive, roll as well or better, outturn, accelerate as well or better and generally be more nimble in the air than the FW-190A5. All with much better armament.

Crumpp

GODO · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2004, 04:55:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz
The A8 runs on 1.42ata on MIL and 1.58ata or 1.62ata on WEP.

AH 190A5 uses 2400 rpm and 39.5" for military, 190A8 and 190F8 too. If you did mean real 190A8, then agree.

GODO · « **Reply #12 on:** September 22, 2004, 04:58:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Crumpp
The FW-190A5 could only use 1.42ata @ 2700U/min for 3 minutes

Crumpp, as far as I know that limitation was only present for the last 190A3s, it was not even present for 190A4s.

Crumpp · « **Reply #13 on:** September 22, 2004, 05:09:10 PM »

Quote

Crumpp, as far as I know that limitation was only present for the last 190A3s, it was not even present for 190A4s.

I am checking into this but the ratings for the Luftwaffe documentation I have now say:

FW-190A3 thru FW-190A5 Emergency Power = 1.42ata @ 2700U/min for 3 minutes.

Based on several flight test's of the FW-190A5 I believe a supplemental chapter to the Flugzeug-Handbuch or a technical bulletin was issued moving 1.42ata @ 2700U/min to the 30 minute climb and combat rating. However everything I have in writing says differently so far.

Crumpp

GODO · « **Reply #14 on:** September 22, 2004, 06:14:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Crumpp
Based on several flight test's of the FW-190A5 I believe a supplemental chapter to the Flugzeug-Handbuch or a technical bulletin was issued moving 1.42ata @ 2700U/min to the 30 minute climb and combat rating.

Probably much later, when they all were cleared for 1.58ata/1.65ata. But A4 was already able to run 1.42 for 10 mins, in fact 10-15 mins, surely it depends on the speed.