Author Topic: Military Force against Iran  (Read 1904 times)

Offline Dowding

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2004, 05:47:05 AM »
Earning the right to earn nukes? When did Pakistan and India earn that right? And given that they have cold war going on right now over Kashmir (both sponsor civilian killing terrorist insurgents), which very nearly turned hot a couple of years ago, surely they aren't responsible custodians of ballistic city-****ers.

Also, what's with the hard-on for military action?
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Offline -dead-

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2004, 06:59:54 AM »
I think the US ought to get around to finishing at least one of their current wars before they start any more.
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Offline Saintaw

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2004, 07:02:33 AM »
Hard on for military action mostly due to be a fat arse sitting safely behind his computer. no suprise there.

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Offline Lazerus

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2004, 07:21:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by RTSigma
Because lets admit, I bet hes having fun with military reports, feeling all big and tough like his dad from the Desert Storm.
If this happens, then the draft happens.


I can't begin to tell you how far off the map you are. I've never met or talked to GWB, but I would bet everything I have that he's not feeling "all big and tough" about the 1000 plus young American lives that have been lost, and I don't think he's in a competition with his dad.

As far as the draft is concerned, the only person that has brought it up has been a democrat. I doubt that his base would be willing to support him.

Iran? I don't know what we should do. I do know that another country like that with nuclear capability is a step in the wrong direction. NK included. Do they have the ability to retaliate with conventional weapons? Do they have the ability to retaliate with non-conventional means?

The response needs to be considered in any decision.

Offline Squire

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2004, 07:27:43 AM »
"If the US decides to go after Iran, nothing will stop it imho."

Gee, you think so?

Any USN CV Battle Group would be capable of doing the job in an afternoon, not to mention that the sites are fixed and therefore extremely vulnerable to SSN and Surface Group attack from Tomahawks, you probably could level the entire facility and not violate their airspace.

The whole "can the US do it" thing is a bit of a forgone conclusion, yes? The Serbs had a very good air defence network compared to anything the Iranians have (or any other middle east country, save Israel) im sure, and they couldn't do squat against a NATO air strike.

...The politics of it, thats a different can of worms, just like N. Korea, its "doable" but is it the right move?

...one last thing just remember that the only place in the Mid East that had a spontaneous, supportive protest against the terrorists on 9-11 was in Tehran. Food for thought before its decided to blow them to mars.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 07:35:31 AM by Squire »
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Offline Lazerus

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2004, 07:51:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
...one last thing. Just remember that the only place in the Mid East that had a spontaneous, supportive protest against the terrorists on 9-11 was in Tehran. Food for thought before its decided to blow them to mars.

Offline Dowding

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2004, 08:06:46 AM »
The Iranians have a much more up to date SAM network than the Serbs. State of the art Russian stuff. Although, I shouldn't think any defence is impenetrable.
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Offline AKIron

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2004, 08:42:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
The Iranians have a much more up to date SAM network than the Serbs. State of the art Russian stuff. Although, I shouldn't think any defence is impenetrable.


Not arguing with you here. Will be interested in seeing this statement refuted though should the Israelis or someone else decide to test this state of the art Russian stuff. Can just hear Boroda or GScholz now, "well, they didn't have trained operators" or "the equipment wasn't properly maintained" or ....    ;)
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Offline Dowding

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2004, 08:49:47 AM »
I don't think anyone is claiming the defence is impenetrable, but rather that losses would be much higher than has been seen in recent conflicts.
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Offline AKIron

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2004, 08:52:38 AM »
Yeah, I understood that Dowding. I'm just guessing what will be said should someone get in and out without losing a plane. I'm willing to bet that should that happen the excuses will abound.
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Offline Torque

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2004, 09:05:22 AM »
And afterwards will you guys start crying "foul" if a few Iranian nutbags penetrate a couple of American Nuclear plants and blow them up?

Offline Charon

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2004, 09:40:33 AM »
Quote
"The Islamic fundamentalists who rule Iran have suppressed women in the cruelest manner over the past two decades. Inhuman punishments such as stoning, execution, and flogging of women in public under bogus pretexts were stepped up in 2001."


What do they say about our friends the Saudis?

The women reporters interviewed seemed sad when they addressed the social aspects of life, and indirectly acknowledged the hardships of married women Iran which I believe put them further under the fundamentalist religious laws than otherwise. Most vowed not to get married. The ruling council obviously has conservative supporters, and when you move out of Tehran into the sticks, I imagine you face fewer secular controls and more old time religion.

But, the openness was surprising in that  their faces weren't covered, they traveled and socialized with men not of their immediate family, the woman typesetter supervisor scolded the editor for being late with his articles, they worked in Western type jobs, they were educated, (several were smoking hot, at least their faces, but that's beside the point :)) and I imagine they drove if needed. Far more open than most of the region.

It really was surprising. I had a "lump them all together" mindset myself, but you just didn't see the overt oppression, or any particular fear about expressing "carefully" negative opinions by both the reporters and the average citizens. Obviously the fundamantalists would change this in a heartbeat if they could, but it was informative that they apparently didn't have enough power to be a Taliban.

Charon

[edit: Although leading reform journalists who go too far are imprisoned for various periods of time, and their papers shut down, torture wasn't a main concern - being out of a job was. The editor in chief of the paper being profiled even bragged about his prison time as a badge of honor. And, he was back at work.]
« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 09:51:00 AM by Charon »

Offline Charon

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2004, 10:05:36 AM »
I will add that they did note a sense of political apathy among the population since the religious ruling council negated most of the viable reform candidates from the last election.

One female political reporter stated she wouldn't cover the parliment anymore, as it was somewhat pointless (but you got the impression she was just depressed at the turn of events). And, conditions are open enough and good enough that it was hard to rile up the average reform minded citizen to do anything overt about it. But they also stated that its cyclical process and they would keep grinding away as hard as they could while still staying open until the next upswing comes along.

Charon
« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 10:07:43 AM by Charon »

Offline DoctorYO

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2004, 10:53:50 AM »
If we decide to do this what army are we going to fight this war with..

Considering we are bogged down with stop loss; and as such retainment after such stoploss is going to be pathetic how are we going to have the manpower for a 3 front war.. and occupation.. gizmos and gadgets only go far infantry is called the king of battle for a reason.. (3 fronts being Iraq, Iran, and Afgan) (lets not mention that fine report that came out yesterday saying were are to thin to meet the demand of our military actions either..)

And by doing such we would signal a clear and present danger to DPRK (iraq down..  Iran down.. who next on the axis of evil..)

DPRK is no childsplay..  Million + troops 10k pieces of Arty..  Nukes and terrain and weather that will make your head spin..

Not to mention 50 years of fortification on every mountain top from Seoul to Pyongyang..  Good luck.. it would be the bloodiest war since ww1 trench warfare.. (we would win just it would be Prryric victory)

Iran is no pushover either.. after Saddams war against them their millitary is sound and unscathed for over 10 years.. (they outsmarted us with wmd claims taking us down a notch while they have become Middle Eastern superpower made possible with the fall of Iraq. Not bad for a dim whit country the press keeps claiming they are..) (persians have been scheming since Darius if we read our history we would have seen this ploy they got us into.. Rumsfield doesn't read history if he did he would have read what happened to the British 1917 in bagdad, talk about Deja Vu and history repeating itself is a understatement..)

Im against a Iran strike..  not now.. the logistics dont support it..

Israel would get sucked in somehow and then ww3 in the middle east...  If you want that just be shure to be on the first boat over there..

My suggestion is let them play their cards and we react..  by doing such (catching them lying about Nukes) we get global support against them when they play bad..  as opposed to the halfarse support (not including UK or ROK) we have in Iraq from a preeumptive war......


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Offline AKIron

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Military Force against Iran
« Reply #59 on: September 24, 2004, 11:22:14 AM »
Who said anything about invading Iran? We are talking about destroying their nuke making capability. Our Air Force is not over taxed.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating we whup up on Iran just now. Israel is probably the most threatened from a Nukuler Iran, let them do what's in their best interest.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 11:25:33 AM by AKIron »
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