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Author Topic: USSAF Statistics for 1944  (Read 3730 times)

Offline Angus

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USSAF Statistics for 1944
« Reply #105 on: October 05, 2004, 03:03:38 PM »
Errrr...this:
"The next thing that stands out is the number of losses to claims (we all know how claims are...). If you examine the poor level of pilot training in the last years of the Luftwaffe, it is amazing that they could dish out on an almost equal level with what they took. "

From the western front perspective:
Look at a map and consider what distances the enemy aircraft had to cross to get to their targets. By radar and ground observation EVEN UP TO HOURS!
Compare that to i.e. the BoB, where the distance over hostile territory would only be a fraction of what the allied agressors had to cross, yet the defender in the BoB was scoring on a 2 to 1 level.......................

IMHO the Luftwaffe's most amazing performance was on the eastern front. Incredibly low losses for massive amount of missions, being surrounded by a huge amount of enemy aircraft.
(Imagine a 109G6 in a swamp of La5's and Il2's...ehhh)
Just look at Izzy's numbers.
Regards
Angus
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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« Reply #106 on: October 05, 2004, 03:06:28 PM »
Oh, Milo...
Very nice info.
So, in the heat of battle, SgK 190's would be assigned to escort.
Just what I would have thought logical for what was actually going on :) ;) :D
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #107 on: October 05, 2004, 03:20:24 PM »
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So, in the heat of battle, SgK 190's would be assigned to escort.


Let's Look at Milo's "Fighter Assignments"

For 16 April 43:






For 5 April 43, I guess you loosely call it an "Interception Mission".  I think it was more like local airfield defense combined with getting planes out of the way so they could not be destroyed on the ground.





Only when NO FIGHTERS were available to escort would SKG 10 provide their own escort.  This happens very rarely.

"FW-190 in North Africa" is a great book and worth the money.  It references quite a few of the same docs.

Crumpp
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #108 on: October 05, 2004, 03:29:49 PM »
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Compare that to i.e. the BoB, where the distance over hostile territory would only be a fraction of what the allied agressors had to cross, yet the defender in the BoB was scoring on a 2 to 1 level.......................


I have never heard that BoB was 2 to 1 fighters.  

Crumpp
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #109 on: October 05, 2004, 03:35:12 PM »
WOW!!!!
NICE!!!!!

BTW, Crumpp, or anybody....
Do you have the book fighters over Africa (I think) by Hans Ring and Cristopher Shores.

Now there's one I'd like to get my hands on!
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Guppy35

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USSAF Statistics for 1944
« Reply #110 on: October 05, 2004, 03:46:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
WOW!!!!
NICE!!!!!

BTW, Crumpp, or anybody....
Do you have the book fighters over Africa (I think) by Hans Ring and Cristopher Shores.

Now there's one I'd like to get my hands on!


Tough book to find and expensive when you do.  I ended up giving mine to a JG27 fanatic a while back.  Wish I still had it now :)

Just checked on http://www.abebooks.com.

Cheapest copy is 70 dollars

Dan/Slack
« Last Edit: October 05, 2004, 03:50:29 PM by Guppy35 »
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Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #111 on: October 05, 2004, 04:02:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
I have never heard that BoB was 2 to 1 fighters.  

Crumpp


Did it state fighters? There was LW bombers shot down as well. The main objective of the RAF's FC was to shoot down bombers.

As for the 190 in the MTO, you stated there was no fighter 190s in the MTO.

I would call it an intercept mission since they took off 15 minutes before the attack occured. The Spit was shot down 30km away from the field.
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #112 on: October 05, 2004, 04:16:33 PM »
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Cheapest copy is 70 dollars


That is much cheaper than original sources!

Crumpp
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #113 on: October 05, 2004, 04:17:52 PM »
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As for the 190 in the MTO, you stated there was no fighter 190s in the MTO.


Read the book Milo.  There are no FW-190 fighter units in the MTO at that time.  Please feel free to find one.

Crumpp
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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #114 on: October 05, 2004, 04:21:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
That is much cheaper than original sources!

Crumpp


All a matter of perspective I suppose :)

Considering I had a copy and gave it away, I have only myself to blame :)

Dan/Slack
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Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #115 on: October 05, 2004, 04:33:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
Read the book Milo.  There are no FW-190 fighter units in the MTO at that time.  Please feel free to find one.

Crumpp


Who said anything about 'that time'?

quote: "There were no FW-190 fighters in the theater."

I hope you have some very good proof readers for your book.
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #116 on: October 05, 2004, 04:36:21 PM »
Quote
Who said anything about 'that time'?



Read the thread Milo.

This statement:

Quote
"There were no FW-190 fighters in the theater."


Is taken out of context by you.


Crumpp
« Last Edit: October 05, 2004, 04:39:44 PM by Crumpp »
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #117 on: October 05, 2004, 04:38:14 PM »
The BoB:
2:1 aircraft (roughly and scarcely) was my point.

Anyway,Crumpp, it's a bloody lot of data.
Lots of work to do ;)

Regards


Angus
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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USSAF Statistics for 1944
« Reply #118 on: October 05, 2004, 04:39:26 PM »
Oh, and Milo...Crumpp......
Shake hands please :)
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #119 on: October 05, 2004, 04:42:32 PM »
Angus, bro

I don't think the BoB was 2 to 1 at all.  More like 1 to 1 with the Luftwaffe not having anything near the 8 to 1 numerical advantage needed according to the USAAF doctrine to win Air Supremacy.  Now the Luftwaffe had almost a 2 to 1 advantage in numbers.

Check the casualties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain

Crumpp
« Last Edit: October 05, 2004, 04:48:45 PM by Crumpp »
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