Its pretty remarkable...

[Rino]

Originally posted by rod367th
lol bismark would argue with you. since it was dead in water thx to low slow biplane attack. they fired every aa round they had barely hit 1 swordfish lol

     The Bismark was not dead in the water, it was turning in a
wide circle due to the golden BB hit on a rudder.  Admittedly
the AAA crews did not perform in a stellar fashion, but the
RN got very lucky.

[moot]

Morph, the ships weren't damaged beforehand?  You haven't mentionned it.

[stegor]

....came in low shot till i died , reupped another 110 ...

That is where is the big reality mistification, you up you surely die you reup in 5 seconds, you die and again and again.......so a single person can simulate a bunch of kamikaze in a short time.

When you die you have to reup from another field for the next ten minutes could be a solution??

[TexMurphy]

You know I find it pretty remarkable that people do compare this game with RL... IT IS A GAME!!!

I mean virtually EVERYTHING can be classified with the "it wasnt this way in RL"... because its a game.

Lets look at the game...

Pilot A launches just like any other pilot WIHTOUT A MISSION...

We are all hijackin planes for joy riding... this didnt happen in RL...

Pilot A gets shot down and launches again in less then 30 sec... this didnt happen in RL...

Pilot A lands and gets his plane refueled in 30 sec.. this didnt happen in RL...

Pilot A flies a Yak and his wingman pilot B flies a 190... this dint happen in RL...

Pilot A engages and shoots down a Yak... this didnt happen in RL..

Pilot B gets help from Pilot C in a P51 to take out 3 Lancaster Bombers... this didnt happen in RL...

There is so much in this game that didnt happen in RL. You know why? BECAUSE ITS A GAME!!!

Realism is all nice BUT game play is more important then realism. There will always be unrealisitc events in even the most realistic games. Simply because it is a game and in games realism always has to be ballanced with the fun factor.

I dont mind discussions if a 110 should have the ability to take out a ship. BUT I do mind when references are made to RL because AH2 not a  recreation of RL. AH is a great flight simulator game.

Tex

[hogenbor]

J_A_B do you habe a list like that for the Japanese carriers as well?

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by moot
Morph, the ships weren't damaged beforehand?  You haven't mentionned it.

Moot thats a good question and I appoligize for not already answering it.

The Cruiser I was at yesterday was not dammaged. I was the only one on the there until I brought it to the Nights attention that it was ready to strike the base. I had been shelling the base for 10 minutes or so before that. Then upped in a heavy F6 and went in to take out ord. Alot of good that did because 5 minutes later a 110 slipped through and straffed the Cruiser down easier than if it were feild ack.

Im not "angry" because our cruiser was lost. Rather  I am addressing an issue with the CV groups that has bothered me from the start of AH2. They are just too soft. SURE, maybe 30mm is a big gun, but there is no HE 30mm in the world that is tough enough to penetrate a ships hull and sink it within one pass. Thats not its job, and it wasnt designed to penetrate heavy armor.

Yet, you can around a Tiger tank and straffe it until the cows come home and nothing happens.

Give the same 110 several repeated passes on the CV and its gone just as easy.

[Morpheus]

BUT I do mind when references are made to RL because AH2 not a recreation of RL. AH is a great flight simulator game.

You must have missed the thread where Urchin made point after point of the 30mm and 20mm of the luftweenie planes being able to penetrate armor when they should not.

I'm sorry that you MIND reading this. But then again, this is alot like TV, you can always change the channel.

This is not about RL and what happend when "this plane hit this CV back in 1943...."

I broke my cardinal rule and used the word realism. I should not have.

The whole point(s), is one which I think you may be over looking.

Which is..
The luftweeenie 30mm/20mm do not have the capability of penetrating a ships hull and sinking it in several passes let alone a single pass.

-They are HE rounds which penetrate thin material, and explode from within.

[moot]

Strange then, never heard of it happening before.

[TexMurphy]

MoRphEuS

Ive got nothing against discussions that are "This weapon penetrates armour but it shouldnt/didnt". That is good and sound.

Though arguments like.... "IRL there is no way a single 110 is gonna sink a CV ... period. " are just totally out of place. (Im not saying you said this).

But this thread has gone from arguing weapons implementation to comparing IRL with in game.

The reason why this is wrong is because IF weapons are implemented as they should be (imho historicaly correct) and the players find different useage for them then they where intended for in RL then its fine.

Simply because we are not simulating WW2 or reliving it. We are defining air combat and air combat tactics based on the world we play in, AH2 the game.

So if we see 110s attacking and sinking CVs I have nothing against it at all. As long as the weapons and flight characteristics of the 110s are right ofcourse.

Tex.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by MoRphEuS
No to the last 5 or so.

All he'd have to do is make the Ships harder.

Just making the ships harder is not going to solve anything. The cumulative damage still makes it possible for aircraft guns to make the kill shot.

If a single bf110 can do it now, then 2 would be able to do it if the damage to kill number was increased. What we need is for the armor plating to not take damage from aircraft guns at all, or very limited damage.

All this talk about realistic damage models is great, but HTC isn't going to implement it due to the whining factors that it will create. Give the US M2 .50 API rounds that actually burn and the cries will go on forever.

[Morpheus]

As long as the weapons and flight characteristics of the 110s are right ofcourse.

Simply because we are not simulating WW2 or reliving it. We are defining air combat and air combat tactics based on the world we play in, AH2 the game.

So what are you going to go with?



Midnight, you cant sit there and tell me that a 30mm round from a 110 should have or ever did have the capability of fully penetrating a Cruisers armor more so, to sink a cruiser with a single pass.

And cumulative damage is fine. But... That being said, there is no way a 110 should be able to do enough cumulative damage to sink a cruiser in a single pass.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by MoRphEuS
...when a single 110G2 can come in otd and straffe down a Cruiser in a single pass along with its rockets...

Its even more astounding when that 110 proceeds to fly right on through the CV ack with zero damage.


Thats realism for ya.

WTG guys.

 Nearly as remarkable as being out in no man`s land headed for a base and that magical, mystical puffy ack consumes your plane when you go to auto pilot to reach for a smoke. No ping, no hits, no degree in damage, just BOOM, you and your plane are just gone.

[Mugzeee]

Elfie.
Please define "Capital Ship"?
HTC recognizes the CV as the "Primary" Ship. And ALL others as "Other Ships."
HTC doesnt see the Cruiser as your "Capital" or "Primary" ship.
AH2 IS an "Arcade" Game. Although most wont or dont admit it.
Untill it becomes a 100% RL SIM...it will remain an arcade game.
And that is of course is when I would be checking out. Many of us mouth that we want a RL sim...but it is simply un-true.
The threads have proven that out time and again.
What we want is what we want. The problem is....that in and of its self is an ever changing desire for nearly every one of us.
I for one am Sick of hearing the "IRL" comment. Becuase of the "Fact" yes i am saying "Fact" That its very likely that not a single one of AH players actually want a "100% RL simulation" 100% of the time.
So in closing......What a waste of time.

[Morpheus]

Alright MugZ, so when can I have my Tiffy's 20mm's be loaded with Uranium depleted rounds?

Yeah, no kidding bro. The game isnt based on RL situations or doesnt come close to "simulating" RL. But...

The game is derived from real life objects, mechanisms, and machines.

When one of those is wrong they should fix it.

If you think its a waste of time fine. They stay out of things and let others argue their points.

I'm not here to discuss the matter of how others including me use their time on the BB. Im here, now, to say that something is wrong here and it should be fixed. Nothing more nothing less.

Again, if you dont like what your reading and think its a waste of time, why waste your own time in responding?

[Mugzeee]

"Alright MugZ, so when can I have my Tiffy's 20mm's be loaded with Uranium depleted rounds?"
Yes.

"Yeah, no kidding bro. The game isnt based on RL situations or doesnt come close to "simulating" RL. But...
Fact.

"The game is derived from real life objects, mechanisms, and machines.
True

"When one of those is wrong they should fix it.
Its your opinion that there is a problem. no?

"If you think its a waste of time fine. They stay out of things and let others argue their points.
The Game is the waste of time i refere too Cant be denied.
The time spent playing a PC game is a waste of time. Even if we so choose to enjoy that waste.

"I'm not here to discuss the matter of how others including me use their time on the BB. Im here, now, to say that something is wrong here and it should be fixed. Nothing more nothing less.
Less is more.

"Again, if you dont like what your reading and think its a waste of time, why waste your own time in responding?
Because im not about to let you waste more time in a day than i can. Im just competitive that way