Author Topic: engine for restoration project (Read 853 times)

Modas · « **on:** October 05, 2004, 01:03:46 PM »

Hey Gents -

I'm finally back from my trip to Germany. What a hoot. All I gotta say is the beer was absolutely fantastic. The sights were good, but the beer was the best...

Anywho, now that I'm back, I can start focusing on my restoration project of a '64 chevy impala. I'm researching engines (currently have a 283) and was leaning towards a 383 stroker with 450 HP.

However, this car probably will not be raced (much

) and will mostly be a cruising and occasional daily driver. I have been told, that 450 HP is actually to much power for a car that is going to be used as a cruiser and that much horsepower is going to make the car unnecessarily squirrely especially on wet surfaces.

The car is a convertible, so it is going to be lighter than the standard Impala and currently has the powerglide 2-speed automatic transmission. However, the tranny is going to be updated to a tranny with overdrive for fuel economy

So, for you muscle car guys out there, what would you recommend? Keep in mind, I DO want to be able to smoke the rears, but don't want the back end sliding out from under me when passing someone on the highway when I step it down.

Lizking · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2004, 01:17:53 PM »

Convertibles are generally hevier than sedans. That 283 is a nice little motor, with some work it will smoke the tires and get decent milage to boot.

Lizking · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2004, 01:19:12 PM »

What you talking about, Willis? My bone stock 1967 Impala Station wagon with the 283 would smoke the tires, no problem.

Modas · « **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 2004, 01:37:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lizking
What you talking about, Willis? My bone stock 1967 Impala Station wagon with the 283 would smoke the tires, no problem.

the 283 is a nice engine. Don't get me wrong. However, the engine needs to be totally torn down, rebuilt and set up to run on unleaded gas which I THINK requires work on the valve seats.

At this point, I have no idea what it would cost to do all that (estimating $3000), but I figgured for a little more money, I could get more performance. I'm looking for that "push you back in the seat" type of acceleration, but not so much that the car is difficult to drive.

Lizking · « **Reply #4 on:** October 05, 2004, 01:42:59 PM »

You would have to put new heads on it, but that isn't a bad thing. If you want to buy a crate motor, there are plenty of options out there too. Good luck with it either way, that is a cruiser.

Munkii · « **Reply #5 on:** October 05, 2004, 02:15:21 PM »

If you aren't opposed to lots of wiring, just do a LS1/4L60E drop, or LT1/4L60E. Both are rock solid engines with a rock solid tranny, just gotta get the computer and wiring installed.

mora · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2004, 02:19:09 PM »

Is it really worthwile retaining the PG tranny? I suppose it will need a lot of mods to be able to take that power?

lazs2 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2004, 02:24:53 PM »

ok.. reality check... 450 Hp isn't going to spin even 235 15 radials at 50 mph in that car.

64 impala is a very heavy car.. the convert is even heavier. you want torque more than HP for that car. When you get that 450 HP 383 in the car it will likely produce about 400 HP on pump gas with the timing curve set at something that won't pund the pistons into garbage.

I love a good 327 stick in a light car but the 383 in front of a slushbox in that heavy car is a pretty good choice... low rev'n and torquey... should be able to do a good burnout when you want and still have a well mannered car.

but... with the torque you get to see the ugly underbelly of the 58-64 chevy two piece driveshaft and the 55-64 cheve rear end.... neither of these fragile POS's like any real torque... they like it even less now that they are old...

there are solutions... aftermarket center bearings and spicer U joints for the driveshaft and... dana 40 spider gears and mosler or equal axels for the rear end. Posi is a must for the car IMO.

lazs

nn76240 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 05, 2004, 02:47:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
ok.. reality check... 450 Hp isn't going to spin even 235 15 radials at 50 mph in that car.

64 impala is a very heavy car.. the convert is even heavier. you want torque more than HP for that car. When you get that 450 HP 383 in the car it will likely produce about 400 HP on pump gas with the timing curve set at something that won't pund the pistons into garbage.

I love a good 327 stick in a light car but the 383 in front of a slushbox in that heavy car is a pretty good choice... low rev'n and torquey... should be able to do a good burnout when you want and still have a well mannered car.

but... with the torque you get to see the ugly underbelly of the 58-64 chevy two piece driveshaft and the 55-64 cheve rear end.... neither of these fragile POS's like any real torque... they like it even less now that they are old...

there are solutions... aftermarket center bearings and spicer U joints for the driveshaft and... dana 40 spider gears and mosler or equal axels for the rear end. Posi is a must for the car IMO.

lazs

I would have to agree with Lazs. I'v seen what could hapen to a 63 Chevy. Just rember to beef up anthing that has to handale more torque. If you doen't youll be rebuild the whold drive train.

Have Fun.

koda76 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 05, 2004, 03:02:43 PM »

Go with an EFI motor...get HP and fuel mileage...LT1 w/4 speed od
I have a 4200 lb 1996 Imp SS with the LT1 and it will Lite em up and go 157 before the fuel shuts off. Runs a mid 14 sec qtr mile gets 24 mpg hwy 18 city and likes to spank 5.0 stangs.... Tag is: FASTERNU

Modas · « **Reply #10 on:** October 05, 2004, 03:56:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
ok.. reality check... 450 Hp isn't going to spin even 235 15 radials at 50 mph in that car.
lazs

REALLY?? Or are you pulling my leg? All my cars in the past have been small HP vehicles and 450 HP seems like an enormous amount of power

I'm upgrading the front end brakes to disk using covette spindles (which coincidently just drop in, '66 thru 82 I believe) which automatically puts me in the 15" tire range.

Interesting. I never thought of the impala as being a particularly heavy car, especially since it was convertible. Course I haven't looked at the specs either.

From what you've posted, it almost sounds like a 383/450 would be just barely big enough?

I'm probably really showing my ignorance here, but as this is my first restoration project, I want to make sure I get all ducks in a row before I get to far into it and find out I either dont have enough power, or to much which makes the car not fun to drive.

What are your thought about subframes?

lazs2 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 05, 2004, 05:33:09 PM »

my take? you can never have too much Hp but.... you want a car that is tractable.... In my 2200 lb car my little 327 puts out in the 450 hp range but...

it does it with solid lifters huge single plane and double pumper and ignition at 24 degrees initial witn no vacum advance and 11.5 to one pistons.... it doesn't like to run at much under three grand and is only able to not fall on its face from a start because it is so light... i didn't want a lot of torque.. I purposely killed low end torque. the engine gets about 7 lbs vacum at 1000 rpm idle.

in your car... you want a car that will idle at 650 rpm and have a very flat torque curve... basicly... you want to be able to hit the gas at any gear or rpm and not have it stumble or lag much. Make sense?

With a heavy car that means vacum advance, efi or vacum secondary 4 barrel... you can get an easy 400 hp out of the motor you describe and it will pull harder than just about anthing you can buy off the showroom floor...

If you like the power of say a 390 hp cobra r then you will be very happy with the 383 in your car if it is tractable.

you want to fire it up and idle for hours in the heat or traffic with the air conditioner on and still fry the tires from a dead stop if you want without hurting anything but your tire budget.

My 69 el camino is a 468 with a 6 speed and air conditioning... it will do all of those things and short of a wet freeway it won't spin the 245 15's on the freeway unless it is just as I shift for a bit.. It is not squirlly.

I could go on and on I guess but that is the gist of it... if you have a specific question I might be able to answer it.

lazs

J_A_B · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2004, 06:49:05 PM »

"I have been told, that 450 HP is actually to much power for a car that is going to be used as a cruiser and that much horsepower is going to make the car unnecessarily squirrely especially on wet surfaces. "

The people who say these sorts of things usually drive 100 HP Ford Escorts and the like. I'd say 450 HP is indeed too much for kids and females; if you don't fall into one of those categories, then you're fine. A car really can't have too much power....that's like saying a girl looks too good....just doesn't make sense.

A '64 Impala is NOT an especially heavy car, unless you're comparing it to a Geo Metro or something. It weighs like 4500 pounds which is pretty average. A '48 Caddy...now that's a heavy car, weighing in at like 5800 pounds. Now compare that to a battleship like a Ford Excursion which is better than 7,000 and the Impala seems positively light by comparison.

If you aren't really worried about racing it or quarter mile times or such, pay little attention to max HP and instead focus on low end torque. That's what'll make your car fun.

"All my cars in the past have been small HP vehicles and 450 HP seems like an enormous amount of power "

If all you've driven before are cars with little HP, then I suspect you're also used to front wheel drive. If that is indeed the case, then it's the transition to rear-wheel drive that will get most of your attention.

J_A_B

jigsaw · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2004, 07:51:50 PM »

283 is a good strong engine. You can throw all kinds of mods in with the manifold and carb setup. It would probably give you the most versatile bang for the buck.

327, skip. 350, good engine, the "standard" for a lot of the old muscle cars.
400 small block, tough engine and will fit in the frame without a ton of mods. 396 is a big block, so skip that one.

Go with a turbo 400 tranny if it's an automatic. Nearly bulletproof. You can also do a lot of mods with shift kits and stall converters if you want.

For rear end, go with 3:11 gears if you want quick off the line and still have "some" high end. If you plan on a lot of quater mile stuff and don't mind horrible milage go with 4:11.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2004, 09:35:34 PM »

I build this stuff on a daily basis, for a living. I'll give you my suggestions based on my experience over the past 25 years.

My suggestion would be a 406 small block Chevy if you want a small block. The car IS heavy, I owned one, it weighed 4200 pounds with a 409-425HP. It is relatively easy to build a driveable 406 or 408 that makes in excess of 440HP, and about 500 ftlbs of torque.

The PowerGlide has no durability issues, but it is not a good choice for this application. I'd suggest a well built 700 R4.

If you want a big block (my choice) I'd go for a nice 454. For the same driveability and durability as the 406 abve, you can have over 500HP.

I'd have to suggest a 4L80E if you were going the big block route.

You can get by without an overdrive transmission if you don't drive on the open road.

The car needs about a 3.73:1 gear.

If you want a stick shift, I'd suggest a Richmond 5 speed. If you go that route, you could use a 3.08:1 gear.