Author Topic: Muscle  (Read 1581 times)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2004, 12:54:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLCR



That's one I left off my list. Glaring error. The 65 with the 425HP 396 was a killer, as was the 327-375HP car. The 70 LS-6 was no slouch, and was very rare.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline lazs2

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« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2004, 08:58:30 AM »
A stock old muscle car with the shocks, tires and speed euipment of the era will not compete with modern supercars.

widewing points this out... he fails to mention tho that modernized muscle is a whole nuther story.    Most of the old muscle cars will drop  a second or two from quarter mile times simply with modern tires and the removal of the antiquated smog equipment (smog pumps etc)   about any big block chevy of the era picks up 60-80 HP by ditching the smog exhaust manifolds.   carbs are better... intakes are better trannys are way better... brake and stuff are better.   Shelby club around here races mustang shelby clones and you aint gonna touch one with a glh or whatever.  

drove some lotus sevens.. they are a blast.   Drove Hot Rods that would make them seem like they were going backwards.  Plus... the Hot rods shifted well.

The "look stock" drags are getting into the 8's (8 second quarter mile) with all stock appearing parts including skinny tires on muscle cars.    

It is childs play to make a muscle car of the day more modern so that it out handles and out brakes and out accelerates allmost anything you can buy off the showroom floor.   Just takes effort and money.  

even mildly modified and modernized old muscle cars are extremely capable and will be more than enough for all but the most expert drivers.

lazs

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2004, 10:17:02 AM »
The 69 ZL1 Camaros where copo 9560 cars like the speacail order they used for cop cars etc? the aluminum block ZL1s had only 69 made right

are the Iron block ones that went to yenko and dealers like that still called ZL1s?

Offline SmokinSS

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« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2004, 11:19:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Seen the one in Louisville KY? The owner used to carry it to all the shows in the Southeast. Most optioned 69 ZL-1 in the world, was appraised at well over $500K.



Hiya Virgil,

  I haven't had the pleasure to drool over that one yet. One of Dick's ZL1's was at the Gathering this year in Atlanta it was sitting in GMMG's shop at the unveiling of the Dick Harrel Wide Body Camaro.

Gtora,

 You sir are correct. Only 69 ZL1 Camaro's were ever built. The aluminum 427 was a option that was kept very quiet. A new Z-28 in 69 cost around $2200.00 with the ZL1 option it more than tripled the cost of the car. There was only 1 sold in my state and the location of that car is unknown.

 Have a great day.
 Robert

Offline Dune

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« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2004, 12:10:08 PM »
I want the car my dad had.  A 1967 Shelby Mustang GT-500.  



His was navy blue with white racing stripes.

The only thing that comes close would be a '67 GT-350 convertible:


Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2004, 01:50:54 PM »
1967 GT-500 (Sexy *****) or a Boss from around 1970 years.
1970 Challenger R/T Hemi (The Vanishing point syndrome)
1973 Trans Am 455-SD (Last king of the road)
1996 Dodge Viper GTS (still dreaming of the test drive I did a couple of years ago, and the price tag is now very friendly).

Not adding a couple of import (need to be us to be a Muscle car).

GTORA2, no 455 in 1970 for the firebird series.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline NUTTZ

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Muscle
« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2004, 03:09:08 PM »
Back in the mid 70's, there was a whole article devoted to 1/4 mile times, and stopping distances between the muscle cars in an old Hot rod mag.

The GTO was the worse! in stopping distance.
The 62 Pontiac Catalina w/ the 421 4 speed was given the honors of the fastest production car at the time.
Handling, the GTO did really poor, at the time the Leaf springs, gave a better handling over the coil springs,

Now it's been some years so I don't really know what other cars were included. And what they said stipulated a "Production Car".

NUTTZ
P.S. Laz I didn't come right out and say it, but hinted around the Ol' Muscle cars couldn't handle the newer cars of today. Even the way they were built, the GTO series used the thinest gauge metal of any production car of it's time, They tried to shave weight off wherever they could. thats why the 1/4 panels are ALWAYS rotted out. And readily available in full, half or 1/4 panel retro's. 1 small bump on I95 at 70 and I'm 2 lanes over. Grande Touring Automobile< HAH, It's a bear to drive.

Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
A friend had a GN, but it had some electric brake system(it was a new system at the time) and kept failing. He would pick it up from the dealership and get a 1/4 mile away and have no brakes. Fastest production car had no brakes....brilliant!!
« Last Edit: October 07, 2004, 03:16:02 PM by NUTTZ »

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2004, 06:50:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2


drove some lotus sevens.. they are a blast.   Drove Hot Rods that would make them seem like they were going backwards.  Plus... the Hot rods shifted well.



lazs


Most older Lotus Sevens are powered by 120 hp 1.6 liter Cortina motors, later ones may have the 140 hp Lotus twin cam. I've driven a new Caterham powered by a 240 hp Vauxhall, with a very slick 6 speed gearbox. A 200 hp Seven was tested and turned 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, 11.94 in the quarter mile at 124 mph.
Not too shabby for a 4 cylinder "sports car" that traces its origins back to the late 1950s.

But wait, there's more. It stopped from 60 mph in 92 feet. It also generated 1.24g on a skidpad.

One of the car magazines ran a comparative race test of the "supercars" available in the US. These included a Ferrari, A new Viper, a Lotus Elise, Vette C06, Porsche GT2, a Noble and several other factory hotrods. The fastest lap times were turned by a Z-tec powered, 200 hp Caterham Super Seven. Not only was it the fastest around the race course, it was fastest by a considerable margin.

Super Sevens are nothing less than road racers with bolt on lighting and bicycle fenders. Modern Caterhams are remarkable machines. With 240 hp motivating less than 1,500 pounds, you have a power to weight ratio on par with the Ferrari Enzo. But instead of paying in excess of $700,000, you can put one in your garage for less than $40k.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #68 on: October 07, 2004, 07:07:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
The 69 ZL1 Camaros where copo 9560 cars like the speacail order they used for cop cars etc? the aluminum block ZL1s had only 69 made right

are the Iron block ones that went to yenko and dealers like that still called ZL1s?


The codes were COPO 9560 and 9561. COPO is not the same type code as they'd use for a police car. The police use code is 9C1 in most cases, and police cars are Regular Production Options, or RPO. COPO is Central Office Production Order, and is only used to create a new limited one time only option.

The ZL-1 was an all aluminum 427 L-88. The L-88 was only a Vette engine, but could be had with the L-89 aluminum heads. The iron block cars were NOT called ZL-1, they were L-72 cars, the L-72 is the 427 425HP engine. The L-72 was available in the Camaro, the Chevelle, and the Impala.

A friend had an L-72 69 Chevelle SS that he ran in A/S, B/S, and B/SA. That car was a blast to drive. He sold the car, and he offered it to me first, at $8500 (that's a REAL 69 Chevelle SS L-72, numbers match, with spares to race three classes, and a guarantee to run on the world record anywhere it ran) but I was buying a new house. Even my wife says we should have bought the car. The house sucks, and the guy who bought the car ruined it. She loved the car, I never knew that.

When the Chevelle sold, my friend bought a 69 Camaro L-72 that still runs today in SS/EA. It is fun to drive, but I like the old Chevelle better.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline lazs2

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« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2004, 08:54:52 AM »
The lotus 7 I drove had a dynoed 208 HP .   it ran 12.0 with the 4.11 gears.   It made my Healey seem luxurious.   I have driven bucket T's that weighed 1600 lbs and had 800 hp.. I have driven Healeys with 2200 lbs and 650 hp.

The lotus is a useless car... I have owned and driven a lot of fun, useless cars... in a trip across the country a Lincoln Town car would probly get there days ahead of the lotus if the lotus driver even survived.   My Healey is luxurious compared to the lotus (bout the only car I can say that about) and I damn near gave up trying to drive it home from Tahoe at night... in the cold.  Snow woulda put me on the side of the road.

the lotus is a fun summer car for summer evenings but more practical than a formula ford race car with stalks for light and bungee corded on licence plates.

lazs