MiG-3 vs Bf-109F

[1K3]

How did the Russian Mustang (MiG-3) perform against 109F during GPW in RL?

btw, when did the VVS and Luft withrew MiG-3 and 109F from servieice?

[HoHun]

Hi 1K3,

>How did the Russian Mustang (MiG-3) perform against 109F during GPW in RL?

Not so well.

Its main strength was good speed, especially at altitude.

Its main weaknesses were its heavy weight (which harmed climb rate and manoeuvrabilit), its poor armament, and its bad handling qualitites.

The second ranking Soviet ace, Alexander Prokrishkin, heavily criticized the MiG, though he certainly was a pilot who know to exploit its strengths.

The MiG, though a great advance over the earlier Soviet fighters, was soon replaced by the Yak and LaGG fighters, and unlike with the Yak and the LaGG, no development of the MiG ever entered service. In fact, at one point the MiG OKB had to hand over research done for radial-engined variant to the Lavochkin OKB, which is a clear demonstration of distrust for the MiG airframe.

The Me 109F on the other hand outperformed the MiG-3 in most respects, and was a very well-handling aircraft wih no serious vices. An average pilot was much better off in the cockpit of the Messerschmitt than in that of the MiG.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Fruda]

I really liked using the MiG-3 in Il-2: Forgotten Battles, as well as Fighter Ace 3.6.

It sucked at low speed/low altitude, yes, but it was unstoppable (at its time) above 22,000 feet.

Its problems with control will keep the dweebs away from it, when and if we ever get it. For those who learn how to use it correctly, well, expect plenty of diving from 20k+, and then quick death.

[Wotan]

Despite what you may think of a "virtual" Mig-3 the real one sucked.

So bad that the t chief of the NII-VVS, Maj. Gen.l  Filin was sent to a military tribunal (where Artyom Mikoyan himself deposed against him), and then shot.

Many of those involed with NII-VVS, like Voydevodin, Nikitchenko and Maksimov were fired from their posts.

On 12 January,1941, the test pilot V.Kuleshov entered into a spin and, although he tried to save his aircraft, he crashed and was killed.

Another test pilot, N.Baulin, suggested that new monoplanes should be piloted differently than biplanes: overcorrection of the control column during loops caused spins.

Another test pilot, V.Gursky, had to make seven emergency landings in four days of tests, and in two cases he went close to disaster.

The aircraft was difficult to master even for experienced test pilots, it created major problems for the typical Soviet pilot of early 1941, whose training was not advanced.

Many accidents happened during the introduction of  the new type. One of the first units to receive them was 16th IAP of the Moscow Air Defence, that assigned them to experienced pilots.
On March, the best pilots of 34th IAP visited the Zavod 1 and were trained to fly MiG-3s; by 1st May, all the pilots of the unit were able to fly the aircraft for the parade. Three days before, a pilot was killed in an accident.
 
On March 13, the oldest test pilot A.N.Ekatov died while testing the MiG-3 n.2147. This happened during a test to determinate the rate of climb,  maximum speed and fuel consumption at high altitude.

Investigation showed that the supercharger exploded, damaging the aircraft and hitting the pilot, who was unconscious at the moment of the impact with the ground. The aircraft digged a crater nearly ten feet deep.

This accident revealed the unsufficient safety factor of the supercharger impeller; it was 26% at the nominal rate of the engine (2050 rpm), but it reduced to 6% only at the maximum rate of 2350 rpm. Besides, the material of the impeller (alloy AK-1) was prone to material fatigue.

The MiG-3 was conceived as an high altitude fighter, but its fuel pump was not suited for it, starving the engine even at 5,000 m altitude.

An attempted interception of an high-altitude German reconaissance plane was made by three MiGs of 31th IAP, based at the Kaunas airport in Lithuania, on April 10, 1941, before the official beginning of the war. It was a failure, because all three interceptors entered into spin during the combat and were lost, killing one pilot.

Pilot engineer A.Kochetkov went to Kaunas to investigate; he found that the pilot's training was insufficient, particularly for high altitude operations, so he organized some tests, and discovered that, if well piloted, the aircraft was able to make combat turns without spinning up to an altitude of 10,500 m.

[Fruda]

Looks to me like it was more of a pilot problem.

I got into a few spins myself in Il-2 (as well as FA 3.6), but that was it. There was also the occasional engine failure on Il-2.

Other than than those things, it would be a good addition to Aces High. And, since we don't have engine failures and spontaneous engine explosions, it won't be so risky.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Fruda
Its problems with control will keep the dweebs away from it, when and if we ever get it. For those who learn how to use it correctly, well, expect plenty of diving from 20k+, and then quick death.

Yeah, lets keep the dweebs away from it

[Wotan]

It was more then that. Fuel starving due a poor fuel pump, exhaust leaking into the cockpit plus the heat meant most flew with the canopy open. That slowed it down by 30km/h. It was designed as high alt interceptor and it was terrible as one. It couldn't never reach it promised 1000km/h range. It had weak guns, poor vision, bad construction etc. The landing gear failed frequently…

The list is huge. They didn't shoot aircraft engineers for the helluva of it...

Don't confuse "fighter ace" with real life.

[Wotan]

fyi it only did like 390 at 25k and it shuddy construction made high speed dives a gamble...

It was neither fast nor a good diver. It had a mediocre climb rate as well...

[HoHun]

Hi Wotan,

>The list is huge. They didn't shoot aircraft engineers for the helluva of it...

I think the reason for this actually was that Stalin got the impression that NII-VVS had tried to hide the drop of performance from him that the MiG-3 experienced when going from prototype to series production.

I'd say compared to the Bf 109F-2, the MiG-3 probably was a bit faster in top speed and equal in climb above 7 km.

Below 7 km, the Messerschmitt definitely had the edge on the MiG.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[straffo]

Originally posted by Wotan
It couldn't never reach it promised 1000km/h range. It had weak guns, poor vision, bad construction etc. The landing

This one is pretty funny ,I guess  it's a typo.
Cause a 1000km per hour fighter would have been deadly at this time

[Wotan]

shuddup

[Tilt]

All the crop of 1941 development  fighters were "assisted" thru VVS trials by Filin.

Basically the VVS had increased the range requirement at the last minute (post design and prototype phase) whilst Stalin demanded results.

Filin had turned a blind eye to test ac being stripped below proper weight and fitted with odd fuel tanks not intended for production.

The Mig3 should have failed in other areas too.........

The lagg was a poor enough ac the Mig 3 was even worse.......eventually it was considered only safe for so called expert pilots to fly it.

[ubadger]

Originally posted by 1K3

btw, when did the VVS and Luft withrew MiG-3 and 109F from servieice?

Production of MiG-3 stopped in december 1941, not because it was considered bad plane, but because all AM engines was now intended for il-2 production, therefor factory producing MiG-3 switched to il-2 production.

A few MiG-3 was then assembled from early produced parts in the beggining 1942.

About autemn - winter 1942 MiG-3 disappeared from front-line units due to lack of spare parts.

During 1941 there were some steps to improve MiG-3 perfomance, like decreasing rear fuselage fuel tank, that lessened weight and moved COG ahead a bit, improving flying characteristics, introduction of slats, there were also 52 MiG-3 with 2xSHVAK produced.