Author Topic: F4u1d vs f4u1c  (Read 936 times)

Offline Kieren

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2000, 07:58:00 AM »
Wolf37-

You're going to laugh at this, but it is much easier (for me) to kill a tank with a Spitfire than a F4U-1C. I can get 2-3 tanks in the Spit, maybe a couple in the 1C.

No numbers to back this up, and YMMV.  

Offline Ripsnort

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2000, 08:01:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Kieren:
Wolf37-

You're going to laugh at this, but it is much easier (for me) to kill a tank with a Spitfire than a F4U-1C. I can get 2-3 tanks in the Spit, maybe a couple in the 1C.

No numbers to back this up, and YMMV.  

BAN THE SPIT, IT KEEPS KILLING ME, HAS THE SAME GUNS AS F4U-1C, CAN TURN BETTER, CAN BOOM AND ZOOM, CAN OUT ACCELERATE AND OUTCLIMB THE F4U-1C, BAN IT! <tongue in cheek>


Offline Vermillion

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2000, 08:14:00 AM »
 
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Also keep in mind that F4U1-A had "wet wings", I.E. Fuel tanks on wings, that in D version were deleted. If Chog is a development of Ahog then it should have those tanks, too (and their weight, too).

RAM, you need to look at the way fuel management changed on the Corsair from the -1A to the -1D.

From the -1A to the -1D, yes they deleted the wing tanks, but increased the amount of drop tank fuel available.

And I will have to look this up, but I believe that the -1A even with the internal wing tanks, still weighed less than the -1D.

So really unless your carrying very large internal fuel loads, you won't see much difference between the two.

If anything at the same total max fuel loads of the two, the -1A has an advantage, because its fuel is internal, where the -1D is external and creates more drag.

As to the direct issue of the -1C, I find conflicting information as too whether its a derivative of the -1A or the -1D.  I honestly don't know which its suppose to be, and unless we can find someone who actually worked on one in the factory, we'll probably never know.

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Offline SKurj

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2000, 08:23:00 AM »
Hmm, the other night I fought a floppy fish Chog on the deck in the P-51.  Being the lousy shot that I am, I didn't hit him more than once i think lol.  Anyways I stalled him at least half a dozen times over about 10 minutes.  I commented on his floppin around, and he came back and replied "I'm not allowed to stall anymore?"  Guess I was seeing the "spin recovery after 1/2 a turn move"  I think planes in AH are WAAAAY to sensitive to control inputs at low speed... but anyways thats a discussion for another thread.
I did not find the Chog much better than the 51 in E retention in this combat, I was able to keep him 800 yrds below me (my FE) on all the rope attempts.  If i'd been in the chog I'd have been shootin my bellybutton from that range...

The rope was my only move in aw3.. now i just have to learn how to shoot!! to make use of it here..

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Offline gatt

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« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2000, 08:29:00 AM »
Thanks for the infos about guns and ammos weigths. Variables during dogfights are too much, so I understand its very difficult to generalize. However, hotheads like me tend to get pissed off when they see strange things in arena. I mean 180deg turns and zoom climbs ... hmmm, I'll begin to film such UFO encounters ...  

I WANT TO BELIEVE!
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Offline juzz

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2000, 09:14:00 AM »
 
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No Juzz .. it should have none at all .. and not be able to carry any underwing stores, be that fuel or bombs .. AFAIK it was lighter than its predecessors because they removed all pylons and aerial target towing equipment.

I have seen PHOTOS of F4U-1C's sitting on carrier decks during WW2, with four rocket rails on each of their folded wings.

Offline Lephturn

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2000, 09:21:00 AM »
Yes, switch to film.

Vermillion is 100% correct.  Please, with all the time folks spent typing these messages, one or two could find the time to go into the TA and actually TEST these planes.  C'mon.  How tough would getting a bit of evidence be?  Pyro will listen to you if you actually.... wait for it..... have some FACTS to show him.

Those damn 109's keep killing my Jug flyin ass, so they must be porked!  Sheesh.

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Offline AKDejaVu

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2000, 09:35:00 AM »
 
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Pyro said:

There are a lot of sources that cite the 1C as a development of the 1A, and then there are other sources that say that is incorrect and the 1C was a simultaneous development based on the 1D. I think the latter is more correct based on serial numbers.

I could find no reference from Pyro in regards to the F4u-1C in AH being based on the F4u-1A.

 
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ram said:

Duckwing,a member of VMF323, your own squad, has stated twice in this forum that the handling difference between Dhog and Chog is too much for the difference in weight of the weapons in both types.

Did Duckwing6 mention how many times he's flown the F4u-1C since 1.04 came out?  Sorry Ram, but DW6 is about as unbiased in this thread as you are

I flew the F4u-1C last tour almost exclusively.  I've flown the F4u-1D this tour almost exclusively.  The difference is minimal at best.

Ironically... the toughest F4u I've downed this tour was a plane that managed to turn the tables on me.  I ran as 2 other countrymates joined the fight.  One of them aper.  I broke as I saw the F4u disengage me to try to rid himself of the 109 and spit that were now persuing him.  I climbed about 2k to let aper do his thing.  After over a minute, the plane was still going with nobody clearly gaining an advantage on him.  I dove in as aper was just completing a loop and caught the F4u going slow in the verticle and took him apart.  As I closed to within 100 yards... only then did I see the yellow nose.

Of all the engagements I have been in this tour, I can remember maybe 3 times that someone fired at me on an HO aspect initial engagement.  1 Spit, 1 Lanc and a P-38.  I got the lanc  The other two I managed to spoil the shot on.  I haven't encountered that "HO CHOG DWEEB!" that I keep seeing refered to in the text buffer.  I wonder why that is.

AKDejaVu

Offline RAM

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2000, 09:35:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Vermillion:


As to the direct issue of the -1C, I find conflicting information as too whether its a derivative of the -1A or the -1D.  I honestly don't know which its suppose to be, and unless we can find someone who actually worked on one in the factory, we'll probably never know.

Verm, it is easy:

either one of the hardpoints is removed and wing tanks added to the Chog ( I want them because they will make F4UC much more flammable  ), or the  FM is revised to make the FM more close than that of the F4U1-D.

It isnt that difficult. You take either one way of action or other.

But something HAS to be done, as it is clear that there is something wrong with the plane's FM.


Offline humble

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2000, 10:16:00 AM »
Want to add one comment to this thread, I've been flat out whooped in a T&B/E fight by a chog in a YAK. Now I don't claim to be a total stud 1 vs 1...but I'm sure not a total zero either. It felt like I was fighting a nikki with hog artwork. Now I've fought a lot of good hog drivers and NEVER seen em pull any of the moves I've often observed in the MA by chogs. Further they'll all tell ya hogs wont do this stuff....it's not one person complaining here, it's an EXPANDING issue.

If it walks like a duck,talks like a duck.....it's a duck. Please look at this.

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Offline Dnil

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2000, 11:40:00 AM »
i dunno, used to fly the c a lot, found it waaaaay to easy to get kills in.  Think in tour 6 or 7 had like a 20 to 1 k/d in that thing.  Some people who do fly it quite a bit do question its purpose in this game.  

I tell people not to think of this game as a historic WWII sim, its not.  Its an air sim with wwii aircraft in it.  That makes it easier to accept low production equipment being modeled.  

remove it or not?  not my choice, thats HT's choice.  

I actually stopped flying it because it got to be silly racking up 7 kills a sortie, non vulched and rarely vehicles.

my post is just rambling nonsense, move along.

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Offline Vermillion

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2000, 11:46:00 AM »
My point is that I believe many people are mixing up two seperate issues, and its evident in the posts above.

I.) Flight Model accuracy
II.) Gun Lethality

Is it easy to get kills in? Yes, of course it is. Its got the best gun set in the game. No arguement there.

But to then say the Flight model is porked because its easy to get kills in, is not necessarily true.

Thats why I say "Show proof", and not to let your emotions get the best of you when you lose a fight to one.


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[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 10-17-2000).]

Offline Duckwing6

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2000, 11:53:00 AM »
LOL wow that thread picked uo quite some speed  

Ok i said there is a NOTABLE difference .. not Huge not monstrous not giantic .. just notable that is!

Deja you're right i'm biased here but i've flown a LOT of formation with Cs to know that there's a performance difference. Not a big one at that.

Oh and Verm the reference i have is:

Motorbooks International
Warbird History
F4U Corsair
ISBN 0-87938-854-4

There's only about 1/2 page about the C and it merely states that it existed and has only a short note that it was lighter than the F4U-1 .. but these changes were also incorporated in all sucessively produced F4Us (which is mainly Ds)

*edit: Doh forgot to say why it was lighter... Snip from book: "To reduce the weight of the F4U-1C, Vough requested the BuAer` permision to delete the wing bomb racks and all provisions for towing aerial targets"


[This message has been edited by Duckwing6 (edited 10-17-2000).]

Offline discod

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F4u1d vs f4u1c
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2000, 03:45:00 PM »
As a nearly exclusive CHOG pilot I know that if I can get a few pings on a plane it will die!  love those guns!  he he he

But on the occasion that I do fly any other plane and encounter a CHOG I only fear 1 thing...the HO (but even that is quite avoidable).  Otherwise the only less threatening plane for me to encounter is a C47.

In fact when I encounter a "furball" of planes I will intentionally seek out CHOGS over all other planes becasue I know their many weaknesses.

Is the CHOG a great plane? Yes!  Is it leathal with just a few pings? DUH!!! 4x200mm (have you seen an actual 20mm round vs. a 50mm?  HUGE diff!!)  

Can it out turn a Spit? Definately not, unless the wussy Spit pilot can't handle pulling a few G's and a little blackout.  

Can the CHOG perform well at low speeds and make impressive tight turns?  YES!!!  Drop the flaps a notch (tip I learned from a REAL F4U fighter ACE) and go easy on the controlls and you can easily turn inside a faster moving spit, n1k etc. for a nice snapshot.

It should be common knowledge that the F4U was one of the best WWII fighters built so why wouldn't it be expected that it is one of the best fighters in this game?

Just a thought  

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2000, 04:24:00 PM »
Yep discod the Corasir was one of the finest planes in and after ww2, but the sad fact is nobody flies at Corsair that actually earned that reputation. They all fly the squealing god-awful dweebish roadkill of a UFO FM chog. And even then 90% of them will just try headons. Yesterday I almost fainted when a chog didnt go for the headon and actually tried to use his energy superiority to beat me and get a clean shot, yes its that squealing rare these days.