Why American's might want to care what foreigners think.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Surely you jest? Or just not as informed as you appear to be?

http://qesdb.cdie.org/gbk/countrynotes.html

Not as informed as I appear to be.  Thanks for the link.

Outstanding load balance from 1946 to 2002 is just under 20 billion dollars.  So would account for only 4.5 percent of this years deficit alone.  Sorry, I don't think that should clear up any foreign investment problems.

[RedTop]

J_A_B:)

1st thing is this isn't the 50's and 60's anymore. Progress , technology , prices , and times change. Everything goes in a different direction eventually.

Add millions of people to feed. The increase in everything.

My Debt , as far as I know , by todays standards is nothing really. I have 1 mortgage and 2 car payments. Everything in my house is paid for. No credit card debt at all. My wife and I don't even HAVE a credit card.

I remember when the husband got up and went off to work while Mom played Suzy home maker. Times change. The want for better things requires work.

I feel as though I do ok for someone with a high school education. I work in the computer field. I been at my job 13 years plus. I feel very secure. My wife is an office manager. Again High School education. Lucky? maybe.

But in todays world , unless one spouse makes a ton of money , then both usually have to work.

2000+ sqft home 3 years old and 2 Mazdas. Heak man...I feel fortunate compared to many that make more money than I who work more hours and have less of a life than I do.

I see how things look so bad to those that may have lost thier jobs. I totally understand it. I have been there when I didn't have enough money to buy milk for my kids. I remember making 200.00 a week working 60 hours and not having money for anything.

I didn't blame the president of the U.S. for my trials. I didn't ask for welfare or food stamps. I simply did without and made sure my kids had. I worked hard for what I have. I continue to try to be smart in saving.

I don't and didn't blame the government for anything that has happened to me. It is my doing , hard work , a making due with what I had and what I may have in the future.

I would love to come home to my slippers and cigar and paper and recliner. My TV Remote and wife with Dinner ready saying.."Hi Honey how was your day" This aint happy days and those days are long gone.

We live in a world that is Violent. We live in a world that is very competitive. You must change with it or be past by it.

I see your point. Those days would be great. But , I must say , they wont be back ever. No matter who or what party is in the white house.

For anyone to think differently IMO is simply not being realistic.

Once again I say that saftey of our country and the way of life we have is all that the president is for. IMO. He won't make me more money. He wont feed me. He wont pay my mortgage , car payments. He won't prevent me or my wife from becoming ill and being put in financial straits due to that.

Congress can help the people. Government making decisions that make SENSE based on logic and good research and genuine heart felt feelings is what will help this country. Not laying down and rolling over for money. Being re-elected at all costs so that they can do nothing for their constituants.

IMO if people would think about the politics of congress and quit worrying so much on who is president based on domestic issues , then this country would begin to pull together in one direction no matter what side they are on.

People should Quit trying to make the word GOD so bad and worry that your kid is learning what he should in school.

People should Quit worrying what Suzy Slut does about getting an abortion and worry that thier daughter is properly edcucated on BOTH sides of an issue and taught values that may prevent it from happening to them.

If people want top put blame on government then blame thier state politicians that they put in Washington. THEY are the ones that are making decisions that affect them. President Bush or whoever is president isn't going to make thier life great.

Taking control of thier OWN lives will make their lives better.

[Yeager]

well fellas, all I can tell you is when the timing belt breaks, you will know it.   Until then, press on.

[J_A_B]

"No matter who or what party is in the white house. "

I agree.  I don't play the "blame one party only" game.  It's too pointless.  


J_A_B

[capt. apathy]

Originally posted by RedTop
Ok...nice reply...now....

If we lost 1 million jobs directly because of 9-11 doesnt that make that number inflated.

Isn't the insurance companies responsible for higher rates. How is the president responsible for this. Its the lobbyists that cause this in congress...not president Bush or Kerry if Im not mistaken.

Oil prices may be up because of the war..That I'll give you. I honestly think it is bcause the fat cat arabs can. Why? Because the Libs. wont let a tree be cut down to make our own way to get away from oil from the other countries. Bush isn't responsible for that eother IN MY OPINION. They do it...because they are oppritunists and they can.

Law suits over any and everything are what drive health care costs up. Not president Bush or Kerry. Costs of insurance are up...This I know for a fact..but it's do to Lawyers getting richer and people being sue happy. AGAIN MY OPINION.

And the Job wage decrease....Hmmmmm....Heinz Kerry has a ton of jobs out of country. Yet claim that this is a bad thing and costing Americans jobs. Pot and Kettle. Noone I know will pay 59.00 for a toaster made in the USA when they can buy one for 19.99 made in China.

Companies cant afford to insure employees because of the above. IMO.


I work for the government and see Legislative sessions every 18 months. Believe me when I say...You can not imagine what is blamed on the President that he can't control. Same as is blamed on a Govenor.

Do they set an agenda? Yes...But its all comprimise. Kerry will fold in a minute. He can be run over IMO with little or no effort. A strong president will say NO...Thats not what we said we would do...Go back and draft it again. But ultimatley behind closed doors...they all negotiate and give and take...some take more than give.

It is perception. But the man in the Whitehouse catches the grief.

The President can take us to War...kiss and suck up to foreign leaders...try to get us help in certain undertakings...BUT..IMHO when it comes to domestic policies...The president is just a figure head.

Saftey and foreign affairs is what he is all about. IMO:)

first.  where did I say who or what was at fault?
you said the economy seemed fine to you, I showed you a few reasons why many people think it's not so great.

as to the presidents job being basically war and foreign affairs, that plus the ability to veto any bill, and presidential orders (like knocked down workplace safety standards) would pretty much cover it.

so how does Bush check out on those activities?
  most of the world hates us.  (I don't much care what most of them think anyway, but that sums up foreign affairs aptitude)
  war in Iraq.  rushed into without full exploiting cheaper and safer methods.  as some predicted, and history proved out, he sent our guys in with too few troops to secure the country after winning the major targets.  and on top of all of that it turns out (big surprise ) all of the reasons he gave for costing us these lives and money turned out to be BS.
  safety.  we already mentioned how he's operated on workplace safety.  
  how about the other one, national security?  he has underfunded homeland security at seaports railways and chemical plants.  for the 170mi of the south Oregon coast there is 1 state trooper as our sole enforcer of that border. he says he gets to any given piece of road maybe once or twice a week.
  he has done wonders for the recruiting departments of anti-American groups around the world.

[TweetyBird]

We, have more important things to worry about. All those homosexual couples are eroding our "family values" and our grand institution of marriage. We need to do all we can to promote a "culture of life" and a "SAFE America." How can we be bothered with the value of bonds when there are euphemisms and abstracts that need tending! Who is confusing politics with reality?

Democratic potato
Republican potato

Take your pick and feel good.

[RedTop]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
first.  where did I say who or what was at fault?
you said the economy seemed fine to you, I showed you a few reasons why many people think it's not so great.

You didn't lay blame. I was just giving opinions.

as to the presidents job being basically war and foreign affairs, that plus the ability to veto any bill, and presidential orders (like knocked down workplace safety standards) would pretty much cover it.

He Veto's things yes. But It is basically all compromised and done when it gets there. At least most times. And the Safety I was referring to was the saftey of our nation. Workplace saftey being controlled by the president isn't something I could speak of.

so how does Bush check out on those activities?
  most of the world hates us.  (I don't much care what most of them think anyway, but that sums up foreign affairs aptitude)
  war in Iraq.  rushed into without full exploiting cheaper and safer methods.  as some predicted, and history proved out, he sent our guys in with too few troops to secure the country after winning the major targets.  and on top of all of that it turns out (big surprise ) all of the reasons he gave for costing us these lives and money turned out to be BS.

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. Info very well may have been wrong , but I don't believe he lied to the American people just to go to war. John Kerry was all for taking Saddam out until the political winds changed and it became not so popular to be that way. He then goes on a tear of we were wrong and yadda yadda yadda while saying we were right in the same breath. He's a moron fast talking lawyer. IMO

  safety.  we already mentioned how he's operated on workplace safety.  

 Again..cant speak on this one...sorry Bud  


  how about the other one, national security?  he has underfunded homeland security at seaports railways and chemical plants.  for the 170mi of the south Oregon coast there is 1 state trooper as our sole enforcer of that border. he says he gets to any given piece of road maybe once or twice a week.



  he has done wonders for the recruiting departments of anti-American groups around the world.

SO...your saying that Bush is to blame for the Anti American sentiment that is global? I find that hard to believe. We have progressed and they hated us clear back to the 80's. I hardly think President Bush is responsible for the world hating us. Now did he help it? No. But I don't think he is doing anymore for the hatred of America than any other president. IMO

[Steve]

What exactly is so great about that?

Well then let's use me as an example.  I was in an industry that was hard hit by Clinton's recession.  I started a small business, then opportunity knocked and I started a second.  I was profitable in my second month..... yes, the second month.

I own 5 vehicles, not counting boats, all but one are paid for.

My main business is recession proof.  All of this accomplsished in the current economy.  Seems pretty great to me.


Next!

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
loss of 1.6 million private sector jobs

decline in the median family income by $1,535.00 annually.  while prices continued to go up- health care 50%, college tuition up 35%, gas up 30%

increase in health care premiums of $2,630 per family.  
4 million more Americans below the poverty level.
5 million more Americans without health insurance.

those who found new jobs to replace those lost did so at an average of $8-16k per year less than the job they had in 2000.

the economy isn't fine.  it seems fine if you are one of the lucky ones that held your job.  then the lower interest rates make things seem better.

   these are averages, some people are doing better some worse.  if you aren't doing quite as bad as the average $1,535,00 per year less, then your lucky.  but for every dollar you're making above the $1,535,00 less, there's some other guy who's not so lucky- he's down the $1,535,00 plus however much better than the average you're doing.

your numbers are wrong
the "Lost Jobs" in particular
the actual number is around 800,000 not 1.6 million

Even the democratic party has backed off from that number
to the tune of 600,000 and now Claim not 1.6 million but 1 million which is also inaccurate but much closer to the truth

And in figuring that out no study to date has taken into account the 1 million + jobs lost due to 911.
They also changed the way they counted jobs and doesn't take into account jobs created such as Teachers.


People may be making less but that is because of the collapse of the high paying but over valued tech industry which was propped up by illusionary stock value also known as "the bubble" which began to collapse some 6 months prior to the last election. Greenspan himself can be quoted as saying "I'd like to stick a pin in this bubble" long before it popped on its own.
Hardly anything you could blame Bush for
the Poverty and health care issues while they include them in the numbers they also fail to take into account other circumstances such as they also fail to take into account other things like new immigrants legal and otherwise who have never worked or had health care in this country


All in all Even had Gore been elected our economy would still be pretty much in the exact same situation as it is now because the vast majority of the circumstances contributing to the economy were and are beyond the Presidents control and the solutions put in place (tax cuts) were really the only viable option. If you look back even the democrats were highly in favor of tax cuts. where they were at odds is how the cuts were done.

I contend the economy is doing fine. I didn't loose my job. I quit to start my own business and find myself doing better under Bush by Far then I ever did under Clinton.

I look all around the state where I live. A State that's touted as being one of the most expensive states to live in in the union and I see brand new houses going up everywhere. And not small or even moderate sized ones but HUGE houses going up everywhere. Most sold well before they are ever built. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a junky car, most I see are well less then 10 years old.
Well this money has to be coming from somewhere
I'll tell you what I don't see.

I don't see people standing on street corners holding signs "Will work for food" that I saw in the first 4 years of Clinton's administration. In fact I haven't seen them SINCE the Clinton administration.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
first.  where did I say who or what was at fault?
you said the economy seemed fine to you, I showed you a few reasons why many people think it's not so great.

as to the presidents job being basically war and foreign affairs, that plus the ability to veto any bill, and presidential orders (like knocked down workplace safety standards) would pretty much cover it.

so how does Bush check out on those activities?
  most of the world hates us.  (I don't much care what most of them think anyway, but that sums up foreign affairs aptitude)
  war in Iraq.  rushed into without full exploiting cheaper and safer methods.  as some predicted, and history proved out, he sent our guys in with too few troops to secure the country after winning the major targets.  and on top of all of that it turns out (big surprise ) all of the reasons he gave for costing us these lives and money turned out to be BS.
  safety.  we already mentioned how he's operated on workplace safety.  
  how about the other one, national security?  he has underfunded homeland security at seaports railways and chemical plants.  for the 170mi of the south Oregon coast there is 1 state trooper as our sole enforcer of that border. he says he gets to any given piece of road maybe once or twice a week.
  he has done wonders for the recruiting departments of anti-American groups around the world.

Man o Man Your rhetoric sounds remarkably identical to Kerry himself.

You sure you aint him?

If not congradualtions, your brainwashing is complete

[Silat]

Originally posted by RedTop
Ok...nice reply...now....

Isn't the insurance companies responsible for higher rates.
Law suits over any and everything are what drive health care costs up. Not president Bush or Kerry. Costs of insurance are up...This I know for a fact..but it's do to Lawyers getting richer and people being sue happy. AGAIN MY OPINION.

Companies cant afford to insure employees because of the above. IMO.


. IMO:)

Read this
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2003/06/02/29436.htm?print=1

[Nash]

The whole pointing fingers at litigation stems from the desire to have an easily digestible answer to the problem; which, widly enough, has manifested itself in laughing at grandma for spilling coffee on herself, and the mock outrage for having to, in some small way, pay for such weakness.

Folks in the song writing business call that a hook. It's catchy. And for some inexplicable reason, your mind is singing "Grandma poured coffee on herself today" like it was looped... a song you can't get out of your head... even though you hate the tune.

[NUKE]

huh?

[J_A_B]

I believe Nash is referring to a well-known case involving an older lady and a cup of McDonald's coffee.   Most people (the ignorant ones) hold this case as a shining example of lawsuits gone mad.

People more familiar with the case will realize that spilling coffee on yourself shouldn't cause third-degree burns and require a week-long hospital stay including extensive skin grafting.    More damaging to McDonald's was evidence shown that the corporation had seen injuries of that sort from their coffee hundreds of times before and consistetly covered it up through quiet settlemets--putting their drive for profits ahead of public safety.  

I think Nash was pointing out the irony in the fact that the one case most often used as an example of "litigation run amok", is in all actuality a case which is uquestionably sound.  I think he's saying that people always want to take the easy way out and blame the evil scum sucking lawyers, while in truth the issue is a whole lot more complex.


J_A_B

[Naso]

Go away j_a_b, you are making too much sense.

This is not the correct place to be sage.