Don't get it -- what's wrong with MA?

[humble]

Originally posted by anton
It seems rather obvious to me that you are confused as to what bragging is.  Laughing at the GREAT MANY slowfires that would dive in from lofty alts & try to run down my Yak, is NOT bragging.  I found it comical at best, & wanted to share the laughter.


Anton

Anton...

I'm a bit confused, anyone who fly's a "mid range" plane is simply inviting all comers. Levi is one of the true T&B artists in the game. You seem to be confusing the plane and pilot. since you fly a yak your in total control and can choose your fight almost all the time. There's not a plane in the set that can catch you and then kill you unless your outflown. No reason for you to bash anyone in a spit V...with regard to levi...if they give him a .45 and let him crack the window on a goon he'd kill 1/2 the folks in the game.

If it's so easy grab a spittie and show us how its done....

[DoKGonZo]

Hmmm ... we were discussing what's wrong with the MA ... actually, we haven't wandered off-topic at all, have we?

[indy007]

I don't know if any of y'all have played the game Planetside (a MMO sci-fi, 3-sided, twitch game). However, it'll give you a completely new perspective on horde gaming (they call it a Zerg). Try holding a doorway with 30 guys in heavy power armor, plus attendent engineers (armor repair) & medics, spamming thousands of grenades around the corner at the unending tide of 100+ guys coming to kill you in the most violent fashion available.

Aside from the laggy, uber-killfest it represents, there are a few features with merit, and could merit some looking into as possible MA "solutions".

* Experience system: You gain by killing & capturing, just like any other game. There are 20 levels. The more levels you get, the more specialities & implants are available, giving you a bigger weapon selection, vehicle access, better armor, etc. In addition to this, there is command experience. To gain command experience, you must be leading a squad of 2 - 9 people. It's much like being on frequency in AH, except you get health bars & each player is #'d on your map. You only get command exp. points when your squad is involved, determined by proximity & length of stay, in the capturing of an enemy facility. You do not get normal experience points in command mode. Bear with me here guys, I do have a point.

What the benefits of command mode are, as you level through it (from 0 to 5) you get expanded communications. It's heirarchy of private comm channels, from the 5s on top, down to the 1s. The command rank (CR) 5 players tend to direct the hordes and get land grabbed. The higher CR also opens up an even more impressive arsenal including emp strikes (3), small orbital strikes (4), and the massive orbital strike (5). It allows the high command rank players to more signifigantly impact the battlefield itself, helping to drive their troops forward. Overall, it give the horde a purpose and motivation, keeping it moving towards the endless series of objectives (just like MA hordes, but with more focused guiding intelligence... mobile spawns help too).

The second major feature is called "PopLock". Each of the 3 sides have a permantely safe home base. All of the battlefields are on individual islands you have to teleport to. Each side is only allowed so many people per island (game balance/server load issues). Once an Island fills for your side, the population lock kicks in, forcing people to other fronts, or making them wait in line to catch up with friends. It helps keep the fights going all over the place by enforcing a balanced disposition of forces. In other words, it encourages hordes to meet headlong and slug it out, while other more specialized teams (who hate the laggy Zergs) basically turn into commandos, pick their own fights, or cause so much chaos a Zerg forms just to fight them.

[humble]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Hmmm ... we were discussing what's wrong with the MA ... actually, we haven't wandered off-topic at all, have we?

I dont think so...the real issue is varying expectations. Anton and levi have significantly different views of what "gameplay" is and probably represent two different player groups pretty well. Levi simply flys around looking for a furball or someone to bounce him.

Antons view of the game is a bit more difficult for me to grasp but its clear that he feels threatened by slower more obsolete aircraft.

Personally I really dont think the plane is important, the game is 80%+ pilot. I'm tooling around in a Ki-61 right now and I dont care what I run into. The only 1 vs 1's I've lost have been to better pilots (at least that occasion:)). It's all a matter of perspective....if I get bounced by a high slowfire I'm always pointing the nose up instead of down anyway.

I guess its a modification of the old "a mig on your 6 is better than no mig at all" concept. I'd rather be chased by the horde than milkrunning a bunch of useless "rank building" hops.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by humble
I dont think so...the real issue is varying expectations. Anton and levi have significantly different views of what "gameplay" is and probably represent two different player groups pretty well. ...

I know ... the whole "stall-fighter v. bore-n-zoom" thing is just useless though.

If you wanna furball - go ahead - just don't give someone else crap when they won't play to your advantage, and don't whine about getting gang-banged when you're rotating in the same spot for 5 minutes.

If you wanna bore-n-zoom - go ahead - just don't whine about only getting assists and not getting a check-6 call when someone creeps up on you during a 2-mile long extend.

[TMAST]

I've just recently returned to AH after a lay-off of a few months myself. I've been playing AW/AH for going on 6 years now and have taken several breaks over the years. Sometimes you just get tired of the same ole same ole but invariably after a little while off you start to miss it. I've never had a problem with MA, its what I enjoy. I only play a few hours a week so when I want to get on the computer and have a little fun for an hour or two it fits the bill perfectly.

Now I will say that the old small arenas in AW did have a certain appeal to them. You could more often as not find 1v1 fights pretty easily and some really nice furballs would errupt over bases fairly regularly. It was easier to get a group together to attack a base and you really got to know the people who regularly played in that arena, both friend and foe alike. The larger arena's are fun in that you can always find a fight somewhere pretty easily, whereas with the smaller arena's the numbers could be a REAL problem from time to time its not that way too often in the MA. Even though one side may get overwhelmed and ganged on they still have a better fighting chance than a side that got ganged on in the smaller arena's.

AS for realistic (ie historical play) I'm not as familiar with TOD as I was with scenario's in AW. I know there have been some scenario's in AH but they dont seem to be as prevalent as they were in AW. I actually found those to be a lot of fun and really gave a historical feel. Even though having to wait a frame or two for a ride sometimes was a pain it added to the realism in that you felt like a reserve pilot waiting for a slot to open up in your squadron and it made you VERY conscious of not dying. Death had some very REAL conscequences, you didnt get to fly the next frame and maybe even the one after that. But you felt a part of something and like a grunt you would wonder about the plans being formulated by the higher ups and when it all went to crap you wondered what they were thinking. You also got to know people who before had only been a name that appeared on the screen in the MA.

I suppose like anything in life what you get out of it is in direct relation to what you put into it and most importantly, what you hope to get out of it.

There are lots of ways to enjoy AH, the trick is to find what works for you and if that becomes stale or boring to go find something else in the game thats fun for you.

Fun is like the old saying, "One man's trash is another man's treasure"

[humble]

I know ... the whole "stall-fighter v. bore-n-zoom" thing is just useless though

I think that your right to a degree, what % of the population is really pure ACM vs the "immersion/simulation" part. I flew TOD friday with my new squad. Certainly fun, but I got to bomb an ammo bunker in two hops:cool: ....I had a blast and will fly TOD with em every chance I get but it does mimick the reality...99% boredom. I think my comment on vox was ..."2 hours flying around needing to take a leak, so this is what real combat is like"....

Personally I want a fight...even an unfair one. Obviously the 3rd nikki/7th lala in is a bit much but even so...

My only real beef is the suicide buffs...simply since flying at 20 ft eliminates my ability to fight in 3 dimensions and makes the uber guns even more deadly. Combine that with the "roll out of the barrel" ballistics of the Ki-61 and its almost always a suicide mission to stop em.

I dont understand why folks whine about lala's, spitties etc...I hated nikkis in AH1 but in 2 they are much more realistic....ENY is actually great for me since I only fly 40+ stuff most of the time.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by humble
...

My only real beef is the suicide buffs...simply since flying at 20 ft eliminates my ability to fight in 3 dimensions and makes the uber guns even more deadly. Combine that with the "roll out of the barrel" ballistics of the Ki-61 and its almost always a suicide mission to stop em.

I dont understand why folks whine about lala's, spitties etc...I hated nikkis in AH1 but in 2 they are much more realistic....ENY is actually great for me since I only fly 40+ stuff most of the time.

The low-alt formations is really a bigger problem than people want to admit. Folks should be damn glad HTC doesn't employ me to admin the MA cuz I'd turn formations off in a heartbeat - there's cerftainly been enough whining about them, so let the folks who've been abusing the feature whine for a while.

My gripe with La's and N1K's is it's just so boring to always see the same crap in the air. Especially since 75% of the time it's just HO-reverse-repeat with those planes.

[MaddogJoe]

perk the Nik and La7 like the C-hog. Reason HT perked it was everyone was flying it all the time. I think HT should perk the "top of the line" of each set of planes. C-hogs the best due to cannons....tho the -1 is a sweet killin machine. The Spit 9 is the class of that field...don't count the spit 14 as its concidered one of those "elite" rides. The D9 for the 190, the G10 for the 109s you can even put the p47-30 in that list.

That way you only have people who want to fly them for being "them" instead of grabbin the "ubber" ride of choice and HO all night.  C-hog hovers around 8 perks to ride it, make those other the same. You want to ride the class of that field, make them pay for it !

[Karnak]

Perk a 1942 aircraft?  Lol.

The Spit IX is pretty mediocre in AH2, as is the N1K2-J.  Why do you think their usage numbers have been plumeting?

[anton]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Running from guys in a faster plane is now air combat?

-- Todd/Leviathn

For the record, this is where the topic turned into personal attacks.

Humble=  your anology of the Yak would be great if all fights were 1on1, but thats not the case now is it?

Seeker=  its not just the seemingly endless ammo load out, or the effective range of said loadout, nor the R.O.C., Turn rate, roll rate, loop capabilities, stall capabilities,(breath) nor the  stability at VERY slow to moderately fast speeds. HOWEVER, when you roll all that into 1 plane= well, it bored me in about 18 months of play, that was 2 years ago.

Levi=  Having a discussion with you is very similar to arguing with my ex, your right because you say so & theres no amount of logic that could possibly sway you. So, as with my Ex, I will just stop responding, let you have the last word & think that you have won.


****************************************************
My answer is= I dont care whats wrong with MA anymore, it seems to complex to contemplate the cure for free. But when the folks that get paid to fix it get their job done, Myself & my money will return.

Anton

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by anton
For the record, this is where the topic turned into personal attacks.

[/b]

Personal?  Sure, but it struck at a more general point.  You made recommendations about improving the "air combat" elements of Aces High, and yet I feel you largely ignored or at least failed to maximize such elements while playing the game.  AH is far from perfect (low-level suicide buffs come to mind), but air combat is still alive and well if you  make an honest effort to find it.

Levi=  Having a discussion with you is very similar to arguing with my ex, your right because you say so & theres no amount of logic that could possibly sway you. So, as with my Ex, I will just stop responding, let you have the last word & think that you have won.

[/b]

Logic goes a long way toward swaying me.  Please point to where in this thread you presented me with any logical or well-articulated arguments.  Your point about how we really can't see eye to eye on this issue is accurate, and it gets to the heart of why I'm still playing, and you are not.  I think we need say little more on the matter.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[humble]

Humble= your anology of the Yak would be great if all fights were 1on1, but thats not the case now is it?

Anton,

Obviously the MA is a much more saturated enviornment (compared to 99-01) and lots of factors come into play. However, All in all the yak has much more control over its enviornment then a spitV. I've been flying the Ki and have had relatively few problems even vs the "horde" and I'm a pretty average pilot. Maybe its all about expectations...I dont really expect to survive all that often, So when I trundle back with a 4 or 5 kill hop in a KI-61 the smile seems to last a long time. I'm 85-31 (2.74-1) in KI and have flown it since thursday of last week (1st time in AH2). If I wanted to fly it a bit "Safer" I'd probably be about 100-10. If I tried to fly like Levi or the other phonebooth aces I'd be 20-100.

Your 71-21 (3.38-1) in the Yak, given the current realities I'd say thats a pretty decent performance...

Now levi is 353-66 (5.34-1)...in a plane that cant run or hide he has an amazing k/d ratio....

Personally I'd love to get my #'s up where yours are, but I'm not going to alter my "style" to do it....so I'll just limp along stuck back in the pack I guess...

[Flossy]

Originally posted by TalonX
I need to look into this.  Is it still going on?

I really enjoyed flying in the SEA during SO.   1 life to live.

Yes, Friday Squad Ops are still going on.  You can register a squad and see details of the current Friday SO on our Events Server  It's probably a bit late for the current SO, but would be in good time for the next one.  Meanwhile, you could probably join the current SO as a guest in one of the existing registered squads - try posting asking for a Guest spot in the Squad Operations forum.  Sunday SOs are currently on hold until the New Year, but the same applies to them and we need new squads to register for Sundays.