Author Topic: Homeland Security Act prohibits photography... of trains? (Read 1485 times)

MarkVZ · « **Reply #45 on:** October 24, 2004, 11:27:14 AM »

Thanks to everyone for their responses. I see and understand both sides of the issue. However, I won't let this stop me from taking pictures from public property.

There were "no trespassing" signs posted at this site, which I obeyed. I know how railroads are about people on their property, and I respect that.. it's for my safety. I do just fine with the great zoom on my camera.

If they had asked a few questions, they would have found that I was an Aerospace Engineering student at the state university 10 minutes from their facility. I wouldn't go through all that trouble to create an alaby for taking pictures of a railroad facility in MS. I offered to show them my pictures, but they weren't interested. Paranoia is the right term for it. I agree that if they didn't want their operations to be seen, they should build a wall or solid fence around their facility. When I drive by railroad operatioons, am I supposed to sheild my eyes from what I might see? What if instead of a camera, I had pulled a weapon out of my car? What could they do to stop me anyways? I sat there and took pics for 10 minutes before I was apprehended. Vigilence is great, but what does it boil down to, besides a false sense of security? They couldn't prevent a harmless college student from leaving with images. How would they accomplish site security when it comes to real terroists?

This has been a great lesson to me. I consider myself to fall on the conservative side. I didn't pay much attention to to the people complaining about the HSA, and I figured that if one was doing nothing wrong, he or she had nothing to worry about it. Call me overly trusting. I still see the need for the HSA, and I agree that the railroad employees did the right thing by coming out to see what I was up to. I like to see that they are on the lookout. However, they crossed the line when they disallowed my photography. Like I said, the evil aspects fof the HSA never bothered me until I was confronted by them. It's really quite humbling, really. It made me really examine my own political views.

I'd like to become more versed on the legality of what they did with regards to the HSA for any future encounters. I want to stand for my rights, but first I need to become more educated, and I realize this.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 24, 2004, 01:16:57 PM »

Ok. I didnt shut up. So sue me.

I really dont think Homeland Security is the problem. I know some of the stuff sounds a bit nuts and when they first came out with some of the "recommendations" I was as fired up as any liberal about the "infringment on my rights" and "loss of freedom". Actually the Patriot Act is far more invasive than the basic stuff we are discussing here and even more ambiguous in true gains for security. But as far as HS goes, I truly believe that once we have become at least acclimated to the necessity for more security, good old common sense will restore itself and most of the stuff thats just plain silly will go away. People are still just a little jumpy right now, and maybe even a little scared, although its mostly under the surface.

If you truly consider yourself in the "conservative" bracket, and want to see us return to some sort of normalcy within our lifetime, excercise your right to vote. I'm not going to turn this into another Prez debate thread, there are enough of them. Just saying.

MarkVZ · « **Reply #47 on:** October 24, 2004, 01:33:17 PM »

I never wanted anyone to "shut up." I value your opinions and viewpoints. I won't ever learn anything by talking to people that I agree with all the time. I came here curious about the scope of the HSA and I'm learning things.

As far as the election goes, I'm leaning heavily towards Bush, although this little incident made me re-examine my decision. It just shows how poorly I am truly informed if such a little thing can do that. I'm curious as to what Kerry would truly do differently about this HSA and Patriot Act stuff.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #48 on:** October 24, 2004, 02:29:37 PM »

I hear all this talk about how bad the patriot act is. Well I have to say you have every right to be concerned cause it is putting alot of trust and faith into your govt.

However, no one talks about the good parts of the act. Before this sections of DoD, CIA an FBI were not ALLOWED to talk to eachother and share information. This clears up alot of compartmentalization that goes on in said agencys. A recent example is a spoiled attempt at attacking the brooklyn bridge. CIA shared with FBI who shared with local law enforcment....specific info helped thwart an attack....intercepted phone conversaions proved it when a suspect phoned home that the "weather in brooklyn is hot right now" Pretty interesting stuff if you ask me.

Vulcan · « **Reply #49 on:** October 24, 2004, 04:41:11 PM »

Heheheheh, you guys can arm youselves to the teeth with firearms but you can't take a picture of a train heheheheheh now thats funny!

Lizking · « **Reply #50 on:** October 24, 2004, 04:50:24 PM »

You can take pictures of trains, planes and skyscrapers, but you should simply be aware that those things are monitored. Not prohibited, monitored.

Mime · « **Reply #51 on:** October 24, 2004, 05:28:56 PM »

lol what kind of loser takes pictures of trains as a hobby. u americans are messed up.

trains are point a to point b. nothing else.

go get a girlfriend. jeez.

MarkVZ · « **Reply #52 on:** October 24, 2004, 06:03:22 PM »

She's a thousand miles from me, gotta occupy my time somehow

Really, you can make anyone's hobby seem trivial if you look at it the right way. I get satisfaction from flying, aircraft design, and taking pictures. Photography happens to be the cheapest and least stressful.

Don't worry about my hobbies, and I won't worry about yours.

MarkVZ · « **Reply #53 on:** October 24, 2004, 06:23:18 PM »

What Lizking said.

I have a feeling that the employees who talked to me acted outside of their authority, and I'm standing up for my rights. Photography of trains is not prohibited here. Some people were simply mistaken in their actions. We got hit hard and we're still jumpy about some things.

I love my country and this is reflected by my concern. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. If my only gripe is that I got turned away from taking pictures of trains once, I think we're doing pretty darned well.

Tuomio · « **Reply #54 on:** October 24, 2004, 06:27:14 PM »

Seriously, if you can only take photos of "approved" sites, you guys are living in some semi-commie society. Whats next, no photos of things with political interest, without permission that is, because *insert random babble about terrorism here*. Just ask a permission, cant be that much of a trouble no? Only thing you now need is a "strong" leader to take advantage of your reduced liberties.

In free world people can photograph places, that are publicly accessed or are common knowledge. In and around airports for example, _without permission_. This goes well along with the "not guilty untill proven otherwise".

No matter if somebody owns it, but if he lets people in without restriction, it is considered as public place where people can photograph the property (not the other people tho, without their permission). If you want to restrict this kind of activity, you have to restrict access and/or cover the secrets. Everything else is for loosers like N-Korean commies. Maybe your women should be forced wear Burkhas too, for their own safety you know.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #55 on:** October 24, 2004, 06:56:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tuomio
In free world people can photograph places, that are publicly accessed or are common knowledge. In and around airports for example, _without permission_.......

Maybe your women should be forced wear Burkhas too, for their own safety you know.

So one should absolutely not question the motives of people?

A grade school or nursery school is a public place, so hypothetically some 50 year old guy, not a relation to any student walks in and starts to measure the place, photographs and starts making sketches of the building, paying extra attention to exits, ventilation systems, etc.

In your opinion would it be out of line for a teacher to ask WTF is he doing there?

And its France that controls the dress of it's citizenry.

WilldCrd · « **Reply #56 on:** October 25, 2004, 12:42:33 AM »

Unless i misread something the railroad employee was just that an employee in a co. truck so heres my response :
A: He didnt have the right or authority to tell you to cease and desist you activity on public property.
B: you were not violating any state or federal laws.
C: i they were concerned they should have called the local autorities to investigate.

I understand gunslingers point of veiw however we still have a constituition and rights protected by that contitotion. unless the facility has "federal" sighns prohibiting pictures you are free to snap away. However it is within the jurisdiction of local, state and federal authoirities to verifiy your identity and background and if necisarry "monitor" your actions.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #57 on:** October 25, 2004, 12:47:43 AM »

Yanno if our government just enforced the laws that were already on the books there would have been little or no need for the Patriot act.

Mime · « **Reply #58 on:** October 25, 2004, 01:02:09 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MarkVZ

Don't worry about my hobbies, and I won't worry about yours.

dude, just think about it, you're taking pictures of TRAINS... don't people laugh at you?

J_A_B · « **Reply #59 on:** October 25, 2004, 01:24:05 AM »

"dude, just think about it, you're taking pictures of TRAINS... don't people laugh at you?"

As opposed to pretending to be a fighter pilot on the internet?

J_A_B