"early war vs ubberville...."

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by humble
Actually I think the ENY limiter is forcing more folks to explore the plane set. Alot more 110's, 205's, -1 hogs, la-5s and Ki-61's can be found roaming the MA. The issue here is new planes...all but 1 (P-38j) of the planes above are already in the set. Obviously the P-39 is long overdue...but what other early war planes are really going to get used...of course the 190-A5 drivers will swap out to the A4 or A3 but otherwise nothing will get used in MA...

Give me an early model 38F,G or H with the smaller intakes, no dive brake etc.  I'd fly that one on principle

An Allison Mustang might be fun too since so much of the MA is low alt where a single stage supercharged bird can do quite well.  That would be a reason the 39 will do fine too I think as it's low level performance was very good.  

I think it would be fun to up an I-15 or I-16 too with the Russians.  Couldn't catch much, but that turning on a dime in a furball would be a blast

Dan/Slack

[Angus]

A late I-16...
A P63......

Yumm Yumm

[Halo]

The Combat Theater has nearly everything people find attractive about limited war periods or rolling plane sets.  CT is always looking for more players.  

CT enthusiasts constantly petition for more complete middle and early war plane and vehicle sets.  

And although the appeal of any game diminishes over time, the Main Arena still offers many more challenges for all skill levels than many players have begun to explore.

For example, try attacking a B-17 formation with a 202.  Take a B5N anywhere and try to hit a target and land the strike.  Dogfight a D3A.  Recon the entire area in an Me-262 without someone somewhere somehow ruining your perk ride.

Rolling plane sets were the way the WWII actually evolved including the ultimate rides that did not see significant combat.  
But Aces High still seems to have it right in having a mostly unlimited Main Arena, changing scenarios in Combat Theater, and the most significant planes and vehicles that saw significant combat.

Once the present plane and gv parameters are filled in -- and that will obviously take a long time -- then perhaps other eras can be added.  Definitely would be great to sometime have the ultimate props, Korea, WWI, and even the 20s and 30s too.    

However, by the time all that happens, HiTech and staff's grandkids will be running the store.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Halo
The Combat Theater has nearly everything people find attractive about limited war periods or rolling plane sets.  CT is always looking for more players.  

This is true.  The rolling plane set already exists there.  The numbers (to me, at least) show that most people really don't want to participate in the challenge of early- and mid-war machines.  Generally, we find that we get the greatest participation in those weeks when we run late-war setups.  

I think HoHun is probably right - most people want a rolling plane set that is frozen in March, 1945.

- oldman

[DoKGonZo]

I think it's more of a chicken-and-egg thing ... there aren't big numbers in CT so not many people check it out, and since not many people go there there's never big numbers. There is always a lot of sentiment attached to P40's, the classic "Spit v. Me109" matchup, and so on ... but there's no reason to fly these planes in the MA, and no reason to go to the CT when there's seldom more than 20 people in it.

The early/late MA rotation could be very good for AH if done right and strongly supported - by both HTC, and the core of the playerbase who gets the big picture. For one thing, it extends the life of the game by making it two games - without heavy bombers and uber-cannon-jabo-birds base capture becomes very different. Closure rates drop, turn rates go up ... it's all pretty different. It'd also showcase the depth of the game - instead of just the 6 or 7 planes everyone flies 90% of the time. And it'd at least provide some variety in the MA - even if it's just between "vanilla" and "chocolate."

Now, the interesting question really is: how would perks and ENY function in an early war set up? How would plane values need to shift, and what planes could be slide in and perked (Spit IX and P38 could be perk planes, for instance).

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Oldman731
This is true.  The rolling plane set already exists there.  The numbers (to me, at least) show that most people really don't want to participate in the challenge of early- and mid-war machines.  Generally, we find that we get the greatest participation in those weeks when we run late-war setups.  

I think HoHun is probably right - most people want a rolling plane set that is frozen in March, 1945.

- oldman

The difference with CT is it's limited to one historical area and time.

a 39-43 plane set would include both Pac and Euro planes that fit.

Personally I'd leave the 38L and 51B out of it as they're too much a part of the 44-46 time frame.  US rides would be the P40s, and P47D-11 along with the Wildcat, Hellcat and early model F4U

Dan/Slack

[HoHun]

Hi Oldman,

>I think HoHun is probably right - most people want a rolling plane set that is frozen in March, 1945.

Actually, I think that very few people want a rolling plane set that is frozen in March, 1945, and that these people had their habits formed in an environment like that. An RPS certainly makes for a more interesting game.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I think it's more of a chicken-and-egg thing ... there aren't big numbers in CT so not many people check it out, and since not many people go there there's never big numbers.

Could be, but I suspect it isn't.  CT numbers DO vary.  When we run a 1945 plane set we get much bigger numbers than we do the rest of the time (this is true of PAC, as well).  The extra people, of course, are visitors from the MA.  When we have Battle of Britain or Guadalcanal or one of the other early-war setups, the most common comment from the visitors is along the lines of "these guns don't work."

- oldman

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Guppy35
The difference with CT is it's limited to one historical area and time.

a 39-43 plane set would include both Pac and Euro planes that fit.

Possibly.  But I'll bet that if you ran the entire 39-43 set, you'd find that the Germans always fly the A5 or the F4, the Allies always fly the Spits, and the Japanese always fly the M5s.

Just a guess.

- oldman

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by HoHun
Actually, I think that very few people want a rolling plane set that is frozen in March, 1945, and that these people had their habits formed in an environment like that. An RPS certainly makes for a more interesting game.

The Warbirds folks pretty uniformly say that the RPS there had a very negative effect on the game.  The Axis v. Allies arenas in AW were virtually unpopulated (especially in FR - ask me how I know).  

I think you can see the reason in the threads on the ENY limitation.  There is a huge number of players who simply want to fly one (possibly two) airplane.  That airplane is almost always a 1945 model.  Although I personally think that's an odd approach to the game, I'm certainly not going to be the one to tell them that they can't do that just to satisfy my desires.

- oldman (and hey, how come I don't see YOU in the CT, Ho Hun?)

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Possibly.  But I'll bet that if you ran the entire 39-43 set, you'd find that the Germans always fly the A5 or the F4, the Allies always fly the Spits, and the Japanese always fly the M5s.

I'd love that setup as my preffered ride would be a viable choice.  Sure, La-5FNs would still be an issue, but the speed difference is not nearly so marked as it is against the La-7.

You are right though, and 1939-1943 setup would see the planes like the following dominate (italics not yet added):

A6M5
Bf109G-2
C.205
F6F-3
Fw190A-5
Fw190A-6
J2M3
Ki-44-II-Otsu
La-5FN
P-38J
P-47D-11
Spitfire LF.Mk IX

[HoHun]

Hi Oldman,

>The Warbirds folks pretty uniformly say that the RPS there had a very negative effect on the game.  

Well, my experience on WB.de was that the RPS idea (along with the Axis/Allies split) was universally accepted, even though the exact sequence of the RPS was hotly discussed :-)

But as I said, we can only guess - Hitechcreations doesn't need to guess, they can run an actual test.

>The Axis v. Allies arenas in AW were virtually unpopulated (especially in FR - ask me how I know).  

Just three planesets for the entire war, just ETO planes, Luftwaffe having far better planes in 2 of the 3 subsets (and Luftwaffe jets in the third), but heavy bombers only for the Allies, and an arena that tended to deadlock with both sides separated by the English Channel :-)

No, it didn't attract the masses, though I had a lot of fun in the RR arena even at European times. The lack of attraction, however, can hardly be blamed on the RPS concept - the implementation perhaps, but not the concept.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Oldman731
The Warbirds folks pretty uniformly say that the RPS there had a very negative effect on the game.

No we don't. RPS was a huge boost to the game and gave great variety during the three week campaings. There was always something to wait for and it was fantastic, how the game progressed from early war setups to 1945.

Introducing RPS and the early times of Axis vs Allied arena gave WarBirds (2) the best time it has ever had.

[gatt]

Originally posted by humble
The 2nd group is looking for new "competitive" rides...Ki-100 & "king cobra" would come to mind...also G-55 or other "late war" italian ride.

Just to let you know that humble has sarcasm mode ON ....  the G.55 is a late 1942, early 1943, ride. Much better than the gun pods armed G-6 and with a lot more ammo, but still a 42-43 a/c. Great mid-war high altitude buff interceptor. Oh yeah, I'm in the 2nd group  

[storch]

Originally posted by gatt
Just to let you know that humble has sarcasm mode ON ....  the G.55 is a late 1942, early 1943, ride. Much better than the gun pods armed G-6 and with a lot more ammo, but still a 42-43 a/c. Great mid-war high altitude buff interceptor. Oh yeah, I'm in the 2nd group  

I caught that.  It is true in the sense that it was late in the Axis war for Italy.     I'd like to see the Re 2005.  Stripped of it's operational problems it ruled.