Author Topic: Bf109x FM messed up? (Read 770 times)

StarOfAfrica2 · « **on:** October 28, 2004, 02:37:41 PM »

I'm starting to adjust somewhat to the new flight model on the 109's, but I still can't bring myself to be happy with it. I know there are alot of other more serious issues being looked at right now, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could at least come out and say whether there is a problem with the flight model that will be fixed in a later patch, or if it's just my memory of previous experience and my expectations that are offbase. Thanks.

thebest1 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2004, 03:26:37 PM »

whats wronge with it?

TrueKill · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2004, 03:49:27 PM »

star u talkin bout the "tip stall"?

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2004, 01:00:11 PM »

Maybe.......not sure what a "tip stall" is. What I'm talking about is, I can pull the plane over into a yo yo or even a flat turn, and as long as I stay fast enough (above 200 mph) I can maintain the turns all day. But the second that needle drops even a hair below 200 the plane starts wobbling and tries to stall. Dropping flaps only makes the problem worse. In the 109F I have also noticed a drop in climb performance (I havent tested in the others, I really dont fly them enough). I used to be able to set the ROC at 3000ft/min and leave it. If I try that now it slowly drops back down til its at about 2250ft/min. Heck, I can get a P40b to climb that good. I HAVE noticed that adjusting the trim helps somewhat and I can gain a little more climb rate. I still cant get it to stay at 3 though.

superpug1 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2004, 01:26:54 PM »

Ive noticed that the F is a bit more sluggish than it used to be, but its still a good plane. The others seem to fly great to me, and u can use that tip stall to ur advantage, helps for a hellacious role rate under 200mph

tikky · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2004, 05:37:48 PM »

i guess the tip stalls on 109Gs has to do with HTC's model of the slats (in FM).

Overlag · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2004, 07:56:49 PM »

all 109s are great, i love supprising cons thinking i cant turn with them great fun. 200mph is the magic point tho, any lower and it becomes a handful, although still flyable, just gota be careful when you low like this, as any mistake is costly.........

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:41:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by tikky
i guess the tip stalls on 109Gs has to do with HTC's model of the slats (in FM).

Spent some time watching everything at the point where I lose control. It is definitely the slats. As they come out, the plane goes nuts wobbling back and forth and I have to use the rudder to stabilize it. And while i'm fighting my own plane everything under the sun can shoot me down. Also, are the slats supposed to be out at takeoff?

KurtVW · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:52:38 AM »

My understanding is that the wing slats (slots actually on these birds) are down at take off because they aren't mechanically actuated.. When the relative wind is striking them wrong (or not at all) they fall into the down position. As the angle of attack decreases (while accellerating on the runway or as you change your angle in flight) the force of the wind pushes them into their up position.

Overlag · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2004, 09:57:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Spent some time watching everything at the point where I lose control. It is definitely the slats. As they come out, the plane goes nuts wobbling back and forth and I have to use the rudder to stabilize it. And while i'm fighting my own plane everything under the sun can shoot me down. Also, are the slats supposed to be out at takeoff?

you are flying far to close to stall then

slats are great for ME, they come out and cause no sharp movement, if im silly and keep pulling back on the stick more it will start wobbling like you say....at least slats (+ stall buzzer) warn you of this impending doom

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:55:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by KurtVW
My understanding is that the wing slats (slots actually on these birds) are down at take off because they aren't mechanically actuated.. When the relative wind is striking them wrong (or not at all) they fall into the down position. As the angle of attack decreases (while accellerating on the runway or as you change your angle in flight) the force of the wind pushes them into their up position.

Are they supposed to come out at a specific G load? As part of the testing I was doing I watched for any correlations and noticed that at what seems to be about 3.5 Gs they pop out, and if I let up on the stick to get under 3 Gs they go back in.

And I'm sorry, I dont expect a German Spitfire. But it should turn a heck of alot better than it does. If this is the best performance we should expect then thats pretty sad.

Overlag · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2004, 01:07:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Are they supposed to come out at a specific G load? As part of the testing I was doing I watched for any correlations and noticed that at what seems to be about 3.5 Gs they pop out, and if I let up on the stick to get under 3 Gs they go back in.

And I'm sorry, I dont expect a German Spitfire. But it should turn a heck of alot better than it does. If this is the best performance we should expect then thats pretty sad.

ive said it time and time again

109s turn GREAT, much better than in AHI. Up an 109 f4 and you will supprise most fighters with your turn rate, hell i even out turned a nik the other day (yeah sure he must have been a n00b but......)

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2004, 04:14:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Overlag
ive said it time and time again

109s turn GREAT, much better than in AHI. Up an 109 f4 and you will supprise most fighters with your turn rate, hell i even out turned a nik the other day (yeah sure he must have been a n00b but......)

Mind telling me what you base that on? Turning better than AHI that is? Because I'm showing almost 2 seconds slower to complete a full 360 degrees than my best turn in AHI (1 3/4 sec. to be more exact).

I took the rest out because .......

Well becaue I didnt have anything more to say that was productive and I'd like to get some useful info out of this and not just insult people I might have to apologize to later if they prove me wrong.

Please. Ive flown the 109F4 in 4 different sims. 5 if you count AHI and AHII as different sims. Its always been my favorite ride. I'm glad you are having success in it, and I'm really glad its popular in AH. Makes me proud to see people flying it. But I've been flying it a long time, in different flight models. This is the worst I've ever seen. Thats all I have to say.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2004, 05:17:22 PM »

The 109F feels like it flops around more than it used to ... not that I flew it a lot, I just don't remember it this way.

The P51D feels ... I don't know ... "heavier" somehow. So does the La-7. Maybe it's just me.

Overlag · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2004, 08:32:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Mind telling me what you base that on? Turning better than AHI that is? Because I'm showing almost 2 seconds slower to complete a full 360 degrees than my best turn in AHI (1 3/4 sec. to be more exact).

well in AHI i never could stop the thing from doing what you describe thats happening to you now, which seems odd, in AHI the thing would just flop around if i tried to turn hard. so we seem to be getting oposite results???

one thing i do think is messed up overall with LW planes is there flaps, they deploy at a way to low speed than what i feel they should.