ki84 speed????

[Karnak]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
New deck top speed is 323mph with 100% fuel.

 

I just don't understand why it was modeled with an Ha-45-11 engine and no exhaust stubs.



We got an early 1943 Ki-84.

[Mitsu]

Originally posted by Karnak
Can I have P-40 and F4F engines puking all over the place in the early war too?

What?  That's not OK?

Karnak, you're a bit too hot. he's fisher.

[Shane]

50% gas, 1:1 burn, full power, 10k:


310 IAS 366 TAS

dunno if this is "wrong"  but that's what the #'s are at 10k.

it took some time to get from 301 to 310 ias, didn't time it exactly, but a couple minutes for sure.

[Mitsu]

HA45-SP means HA-45-Toku (Special in English), aka HA-45-11.

[whels]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
New deck top speed is 323mph with 100% fuel.

same here Grun, but i used 25% fuel.

whels

[Wotan]

Karnak.

If you really expected a Ha-45/21 engined Ki-84 with water methanol then you set yourself up for huge dissappointment. We all hoped for it but the Ha45/11 numbers are easier to come by.

However, even the 250mmHg on the Ha-45/11 was not 'top boost'. Take off power is 450mmHg.

Mitsu nice graph but  'no Ha-45/21 for you!!!'...

How about 100 check 6 calls instead

[Karnak]

The disappointment I'm feeling is pretty crushing.

I was really counting on a good Ki-84 to keep me in the game.

I just don't know.  The Mosquito is horribly outclassed and has become a huge frusteration to fly, but it seems like it is significantly better than the Ki-84.

I can't fly the Mosquito anymore.

The Ki-84 is not the answer I hoped it would be.  Not even a shadow of the answer.


I just hate the idea of being forced into a effing P-51D or La-7.  I wanted a new fighter to play with, but speed is such an absolutely dominating issue in AH that a fighter with a top speed of 323mph is not even close to viable, particularly given the other handiling issue humble is saying it has.  If the Hellcat is both much faster and much better handling the Ki-84 is DOA.

I just can't think of a solution, so it seems that I will probably be leaving sometime this week.

I'll try the new version tonight, but....


EDIT,

Wotan,

I was expecting about 345mph on the deck and 392mph at best altitude.

I just can't understand how the N1K2-J can be modeled to be as fast as the Ki-84.  This just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Kaz]

Went up to 20.5k (took off with 100% fuel). Got it up to 382mph stayed there for a few minutes to make sure.

I got 322mph on the deck but probably didn't wait long enough for it to hit 323.

The flaps did deploy at a lower speed than I expected but I've never seen any data to contradict the current deployment speed limit.

[storch]

Flame bait

[Shane]

i don't have any problem flying axis planes - or doing well in them.

must be another factor at work for you.  oh yeah, the kirby factor.

[oboe]

Hmmm - pretty poor rollrate at speed, combat flaps that won't deploy at combat speeds but instead at landing approach speeds, and fragile wings.   And a mediocre top speed besides.        

This plane doesn't appear at all to be the plane I thought it was.
Wonder what all the fuss was about.   I don't think this kite is going to be the impetus for any new Japanese squads.

Might be interesting to try to master it as a 'handicap' fighter for the really hot sticks.  Apart from that I can't imagine it getting much use.   I'd choose the Ki.61 over it as it stands now.

all.

[humble]

Hmmm....

Plane is still significantly under what I expected but my 1st hop in the "new" Ki-84 was good for 5 pelts, nikki,2 spits, pony & another Ki-84. Overall the E bleed was significantly better however the plane requires manual elv trim and prudent use of flaps. Also has poor acceleration and won't recover E very well.

Basically Ki-61 does everything better....

[Mitsu]

The Ki-84's combat flap is very effective in "stall" fight.
I love to use it when fighting against Spit 9.

I think Spit5 still out-turn Ki84 tho.

Also I feel P-51D is much better than Ki-84 at med-high speed maneuverability.
It seems P-51D pilots using flaps at high speed and out-turn the Frank.

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by Kaz
The flaps did deploy at a lower speed than I expected but I've never seen any data to contradict the current deployment speed limit.

Those butterfly type flaps (hydraulically operated), were specifically developed as combat flaps.

It's very hard to imagine that the combat setting could be deployed at landing speed only (about 160/170mph as modeled in AH2).

As the speed goes, those numbers were from service trial batch (only 83 build).

Production series craft were equipped with exhaust stacks (similar to the second trial batch) and achieved 392 mph max (Ha-45-11).

Also, about 1/2 of Ki-84-Ia were build with Ha-45-21 engine...

[Karnak]

To me it is just silly to call this an accurate model of the Ki-84.  It is akin to modeling the very first Spitfire with the fixed pitch, two bladed prop and no ejector exhausts and calling it an accurate flight model of the Spitfire Mk Ia.

This flight model, to me, is a less accurate representation of a wartime service Ki-84 than a flight model extrapolated from the performance of the prototype and adjusted to fit the known power curve of the Ha-45-21 engine and the known effects of ejector exhaust systems.

This Ki-84 is simply not a valid aircraft and is just as inapropriate for a WWII sim as a P-81A or Do335.  It saw no combat and it should not be in the game.