What is the Max system for AH

[JB73]

add a dvd-rom, for upcomming DVD games. there allready some on the market.

a basic should only be $50, a writer $190

[Skuzzy]

Overlag, sorry but that is not rubbish about the VIA bug.   Check a few hardware forums.  Look for "PCI Lock".  You'll find it is a bug in the chipset.  It just surfaced a couple of weeks ago.
However, it will not effect many people.

FYI:  I do not make a habit of tossing out rumors Overlag.

[mettech]

Now I will add a DVD driver

And... Looking hard at the AMD 3500...... Price drop?.......

[Skuzzy]

Actually, you can get a good DVD burner (dual-layer even) for $80 or so now.

[MOSQ]

Hi Skuzzy,
My reply was based on my real life experience lately running AHII. I think a lot of folks get too wrapped up in maxing out Future Mark 05 scores, but not really paying attention to how AHII looks and feels given different pieces of hardware. Here's what I mean:

My system purchased all parts on Labor Day sale at Frys:

MSI K8N NEO + Athlon 64 3200 combo package = $269
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro = $199.
2 x 512 PC 3200 Corsair Value Ram = $90 each = $180
SB Audigy $39.
Antec case SX835II w/350 watt PS = $69 (on rebate)
Extra Fans for case 3@ $10 = $30
Maxtor HD = $60
Mitsumi CD-R = $35
Sony Floppy = $14

Cost me about $895.

This system plays AHII butter smooth with all detail sliders maxed, 512 textures. I've tried 1024 textures, sometimes they work ok, sometimes a slight hesitation as they load up.  However I don't use AA or AF,  and run 1024 x 768 res.

My future mark '03 score is around 5900 to 6000, depending on if I slightly overclock the cpu or not.

My ATI Radeon 9800 lately developed a case of artifacting. So while it's on RMA, I've put a one year old Nvidia 5200 Ultra 128 in to replace it.

With the 5200 Ultra (a $150 card last year, $99 to $120 today) my Future Mark 03 drops to 2700. Less than half that of the Radeon. The 5200 is very choppy in several of the tests.

However in AHII, the game still plays great! My FPS is only slightly affected. Only on Ozkansas right above a heavily damaged field can I notice a slight slow down in FPS.

I'm very satisified with the performance in AHII of the 5200 Ultra in my AMD 64 3200.

But the system it came from, a Celeron 1.4, was not satisfactory for AHII.  

Now if I was running high resoloutions and 8X AA, I'm sure there would be a big difference. But at moderate res and no AA, there is really none.

I just think there is too much $ wasted by players who think a $550 vid card is going to make things 4x better than a $150 card.

That's why I suggest mettech allocate his budget $ more for the CPU/Mobo than the vid card.

[Skuzzy]

Nice post MOSQ.  I agree many people put too much emphasis in the Futuremark scores.  As the video card drivers will alter the behavior of the hardware when they detect the benchmark running, I think it rather bogus these days.

There is nothing wrong with having a fast CPU.  Nothing at all wrong with that approach.  But it is a balancing act.  If the CPU is much too fast for the video card, then you have potential stalling, where the CPU is being held up waiting for the video card.
If the video card is too fast for the CPU, then the video card is waiting.  This particular situation is preferred to the one where the CPU is over-running the video card though.

Unfortunately, every configuration is different.  The various software items a system has loaded impacts the overall performance of the system.  This makes it very difficult to make suggestions as to which hardware configurations are appropriate.  Most people take the 'big hammer' approach.

MOSQ, you are experiencing what you should, but you are not grasping the reasons why.  The video card switch out is a shining example.  The 5200 is not a bad card, but turn on the animation of water and watch it tank versus the 9800.

[Kaz]

Get a good case and power supply. MOSQ put you on the right track with the Antec case/power supply combo.

[Overlag]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Overlag, sorry but that is not rubbish about the VIA bug.   Check a few hardware forums.  Look for "PCI Lock".  You'll find it is a bug in the chipset.  It just surfaced a couple of weeks ago.
However, it will not effect many people.

FYI:  I do not make a habit of tossing out rumors Overlag.

out of the 2 chipsets for socket 939 VIA is the most stable. Proven fact around the web.

i will look around for this thing, but Nvidia DO have lots of problems also, infact no 939 chipset is 100% fine.

btw: "PCI Lock(s)"... thats a overclocking issue. Nvidia have that too... Got any links to the issues you mean?

Asus A8V has working PCI Locks, AGP locks, its Sata devices are on a locked bus, its memory support is top notch, it reads the thermal probe properly and its HT bus is 100% stable at 1000mhz.

However most Nforce3 250gb chipset boards have a issue where PCI doesnt get locked properly...only 2 out of the 4 Sata ports get locked, currupting HDD's and you have to be careful about the ram you get for Nforce3 as its picky. And even some boards have issues with the 1000mhz HT bus.

Nforce 4 soon tho...maybe that will be perfect.

[Skuzzy]

All chipsets have warts.  The only gating factor is, whether you can live with the warts or not.

Yes, I am aware of NForce issues.  And yes, I said the issue with VIA will not effect most people.

Chipset issues have always been my priority.  I do not care for Intel, but some of thier chipsets are simply the most bug free.  Some have had warts, just like others, but some simply hit the mark better than others.
And the chipset is what defines stability in a computer system.

As far as others opinions on the WEB goes.  I have gotten to where I do not trust most of them.  Look at how many people swear by the NForce chipset and then when confronted with the issues, they dismiss them as, "oh yeah, well there is that".  Yet, if Intel had done the same thing, they would be hanging them from a tree.

Hardware bigots abound.  They cannot have a rational discussion about various pluses and minuses of hardware.  It is a mentality I cannot fathom nor comprehend.

[Overlag]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Hardware bigots abound.  They cannot have a rational discussion about various pluses and minuses of hardware.  It is a mentality I cannot fathom nor comprehend.

i looked around the web before my buy, and noticed more issues with Nvidia so choose VIA, ive had 1x K8T800 and 1xK8T800pro (K8V, now A8V) and had no issues at all.

I see more complaints about Nforce boards than i do VIA (unless your talking Socket A).

I still havnt seen any link/site showing about PCI issues on the K8T800pro?

PS the only perfect chipsets ive seen have been from Intel... the 875 and 865 chipsets ring a bell.

[Skuzzy]

Overlag, that comment you quoted was not aimed at you.  It was a general comment and I apologize if you thought it was aimed at you.

I don't have time to dig up the links right now.  I'll get around to it.

The 875/865 are not perfect either.  Hmmm,..I really do not know a chipset that is perfect.  All of them had some odd bug here or there.

[Overlag]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Overlag, that comment you quoted was not aimed at you.  It was a general comment and I apologize if you thought it was aimed at you.

I don't have time to dig up the links right now.  I'll get around to it.

ok i thought it was at first


oh and i know what you mean by it anyway...that does piss me off.

See ive been an AMD fan since my first one, the TB800. and i normaly recommended them, but i didnt go as far as recommending them when they got behind.. For instance the AMDs was great, untill Intel Hit 800fsb/HT and dual DDR then it got fairer and depended on what you was doing, from P4 3ghz on AMD screwed with the rating so much to make themselfs look better than they really was. yet there was still people around saying they was the best....yes im a fan, but im not going to lie. Thankfully the lead is back with AMD though.

Saying that i cant wait for desktop P-M to come out...they look great.

Originally posted by Skuzzy

The 875/865 are not perfect either.  Hmmm,..I really do not know a chipset that is perfect.  All of them had some odd bug here or there.

BX chipset?

[2bighorn]

Interesting discussion....

Skuzzy, when will AH2 make good use of Intel Hyper Threaded CPUs?

As of now, AH uses one thread close to 100, other about 25% in average, total CPU load 60-75% in average.

[Skuzzy]

Bighorn, games cannot do much in the way of multi-threading.  It's just not possible as virtually everything in a game is driven by the last event that happens.  So you are always waiting on that event.

[llama]

The AMD-Intel debate (above) really centered on motherboard chipsets, which is why I *STILL* go with Intel boards.

I think both CPUs are great, but I think the stability and longevity you get with an Intel chipset-equipped motherboard is a huge advantage in real-life outside of benchmarks.

And since both CPUs are great, but the Intel CPU lets you get a mainboard with an Intel chipset, I got an Intel CPU. 3.0g Northwood core living in a Small Form Factor (SFF) case that is a THIRD the size and weight of a full tower, and much easier to transport (to the Con, LAN parties, clients, etc). And did I mention that a SFF system isn't more expensive than a "full sized" system, and can play games just as well as anything?

Anyone remember the projector at the con this year? Gameplay was buttery smooth and full of details, and my cute little SFF was driving it, and it was far less than $1000.

More info? check out http://www.sfftech.com. Once you go SFF, you will NEVER want a large system again.

(oh, in case you're wondering, I got a Soltek 3401a)

-Llama