Any NWA employees here?

[Dnil]

My brother in law is a FO with delta, and he doesnt make 100g a year.  Toad could probably give you the exact figure.  You have to figure in what equipment they are on to.  737, md80 guys prolly arent making anything near what a 747 guy makes.

Piloting is a demanding profession.  I dont mean the VFR junk mom and pop do on the weekend.  I mean the professional part.  Its no different then engineering or being a lawyer.  Just in the long run it takes a lot longer to make the bucks they do right off the bet.  

As an A&P you are probably making more then the majority of the pilots at your company.

I am leaning toward what golfer is getting at.  There is something driving your dislike of pilots.

[mora]

http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/

[Dago]

Originally posted by Dnil


As an A&P you are probably making more then the majority of the pilots at your company.

I am leaning toward what golfer is getting at.  There is something driving your dislike of pilots.

Yes, I have an A&P, but dont work as a Tech, havent for quite a while.

I dont dislike pilots, nor do I dislike CEOs, but I just think that in many cases, the pay has gotten too high for the job.  

As I mentioned in my post with Golfer, I am good friends, very good friends with many pro pilots.  I sure as heck wouldnt have lunch most Saturdays with them if I dislike pilots.  And as I have also mentioned, I have the licenses in my pocket to understand something about flying aircraft, on top of that, I have a fair amount of exposure to the demands of the job to at least in a sense appreciate what they do, what it took to get to the coveted seats, and the demands they face.

But, like it or not, agree with me or not, 300G is too much to fly one week a month!

dago

[Dago]

BTW, a 3 yr NWA F/O on the 320 makes $96900, at least according to the sight Mora provided.

[Dnil]

jeez that expressjet gig is not a bad deal.  40k a year starting out, at a regional.  Then you look at eagle and see the junk pay they get.

Still dont think my bro makes 100k at delta.  If he is, he is holding out on me!!

[Golfer]

Originally posted by Dago
BTW, a 3 yr NWA F/O on the 320 makes $96900, at least according to the sight Mora provided.

If every single month he flew his 80 hours in the best of circumstances.


Also, Expressjet first year pay is a minimum of 18,000 and if ya flew the maximum of 83.3 hours every month you'd make just under 20.  If it was 40,000 I'd use them to build time instead of flying jumpers and watching cars.

[Dnil]

was going off the website golfer, dont know how accurate it is tho.

with the guarenteed hours and per hour pay it was over 40k.

Dago, you do realise the vast majority of pilots dont fly the big airlines right?

Do you also want to limit lawyer fees to?  I think they make to much and doctors to.....sounds socialist to me.  If the airlines cant afford the pilots then it folds and the system corrects for the next airline to start up.

[Dago]

Originally posted by Dnil
[B}
Dago, you do realise the vast majority of pilots dont fly the big airlines right?

Do you also want to limit lawyer fees to?  I think they make to much and doctors to.....sounds socialist to me.  If the airlines cant afford the pilots then it folds and the system corrects for the next airline to start up. [/B]

Dnil, do you realize I have said repeatadly that my issue is about pilots at the majors only?  I fully believe pilots at the commuters and regionals are on the other end of the scale typically and are underpaid.

And I also realize that very few lawyers are getting rich, only the top few.  Do I think they get too much, yup.  Most of those are scumbags who prey on people without the ability to protect themselves.  I watch commercials like Sokolove trying to reel in anyone possible that he can use for any possible class action lawsuit that firm can dream up.

I certainly dont think lawyers should make hundreds of millions off tobacco lawsuit settlements.  Do you?

dago

[Dnil]

as a person that favors capitalism I think they should make whatever the market will support.

On a personal level I do think the old major airlines are waaaaay screwed up.  The pay scales are all porked.  Seems like the guys with all the seniority get to make the contracts and since they had to pay their dues they figure the new guys should get shafted also.

As to the delta pay, my bro was making over 100k, big doh on my part, but they just agreed to a 30 percent paycut, so its back down to 70k.  Better that then unemployed.

Me I just want to be able to pay my bills and get to fly.

[Toad]

Hate to disappoint ya Dago, I wasn't ALPA.

Those are my experiences and I could fill pages, like just about every other Professional Pilot.

Funny you take IAM as a belittling comment. I personally think mechanics have a tough job and are underpaid for what they do. Had that discussion with Creamo a few times. Still, you take the suggestion that you are IAM as a slam. Think that says way more about you than me.

And thanks for continuing the string. I've never yet met the man that thinks pilots are overpaid that thinks his job pays too much. I'm sure you know you are worth every penny they give you... it's all those other guys that get too much.

You realize that airlines set their own qualification requirements over and above FAA mins don't you? So what happens when you require perfect health, college degrees, extensive hours in the 2-3000 range in complex high performance aircraft? Would you expect to get these guys for below average rates?

They do get them for below average rates.. because the applicants understand that in addition to paying their dues before getting their job, they will continue to pay their dues. It's only at the end of most careers that the real reward comes.

Your example of guys flying 7 days a month never happened at DAL. The best lines of time we ever had were on the MD-11. The trip was ATL to Japan. It was 14 hours over, 21 on the ground and 12+ back. These guys flew about 10 days a month. You portray this as "standard". There were 20 lines of time each month of this and the trip, by FAA regulation, required two full crews. So 40 Captains and 40 F/O's could get this trip each month. That's 80 guys out of 9500 pilots. Of course, only the Captain's with ~30 years with the airline are senior enough to get that trip and the F/O's would have probably 20 years and could be flying Captain on the 757 themselves.

Not exactly the way you tell it, is it? Most DAL guys work 16-18 days a month. Another red herring is the "days" at work. Pilots at the majors get paid by block hour. Most duty days to get your "daily block hours" have you on duty 12-13 hours.

So you had a jumpseat card from VP Flight Ops? Wow. At DAL, VP FO had to authorise everyone's access to the J/S. It was a formality. Mechanics had j/s privs, some pilot schedulers (the rotation builders; it was felt if they had to fly some of the trips they created, they'd be motivated to make them conform somewhat better to the diurnal cycle), Dispatchers had j/s... j/s privs are no big deal.

In short, either you really don't know much about the job and how long it takes at most majors to make it to the top paying jobs or you take the typical management tactic of presenting the extreme end of the payscale, available to a small percentage of the pilots and representing that as the "average" for everyone.

And now... I'll be off the boards a while. Ta.

[Golfer]

Nothing like a double shot of realism to help swallow your pride.  

Toad, best of luck with your health.

[Dago]

Too bad you are so negative and nasty Toad, but in the situation you find yourself, I woudn't be a happy person either.  I wish you well in your return to health.

When you do get back, and if you care to read this thread anymore, your attacks on me don't change the realities, either yours or mine.

Yes, I had VP authorization to JS anytime I wanted.  Gave that up when I transferred to a position with less travel.  When 9/11 came along, as you are aware, JS access was strongly restricted.  I could still access it if I have a need, but don't need that now.

In fact, it's typical of a mechanics view of pilots. Let me guess... you are IAM for NW?  

Sugarcoat it all you want, your inference and disdain is clear.   You dont just say mechanic, you say IAM.  BTW, IAM doesnt represent Mechs at NWA, haven't for a few years.

Sure, airlines set a high standard, and thank God for that.  But so do many other professions.  Doesnt mean they all get paid the pay of an airline pilot.

Yes, I talked about the extreme end of the scale, congratulations on finally percieving something correctly.  That is exactly what I have been talking about.  

I hardly understand why you are getting angry, insulting and condescending in this thread.  I stated my opinion, and whether you like it or not, I have a right to my opinion.  You are not forced to agree, and no inflated Capts salary will be changed by it.

Amazing how pilots rush to attempt to justify the inflated salaries Capts make because they had to pay some dues to get to that position.  Welcome to the real world fellas, it is not unusual in the working world to do the same in other fields, so get over yourselves, stop feeling sorry for yourselves.  If the challenge and effort to fly for a living is too much, choose another job.   It does have a price that must be paid, monetarily and in effort.

dago

[talliven]

jetblue makes a decent profit for now.  mainly because they still haven't paid 1 cent for thore a320's they fly.  once airbus starts collecting there lease and those same A320's start coming due for there major mainenance checks we'll see just how large their profits remain.  they also are making a mistake in my opinion in getting the EMB190's  the need to now have 2 different training curriculums and training everyone on the new type adds unneeded costs for a plane that really doesn't do much for your operations.

as for pay, i agree the exponential pay scale has gotten extreme.  A portion of that is due to when they give pay increases, a lot of the time it is as a percentage, so the high end gets a larger increase than the low end.  i would gladly see the scale leveled some, but to go to a max of 150k for a 747 captain would be a bit extreme.

[Dago]

Ten most overpaid jobs in the U.S.
Commentary: If only such largesse flowed to all of us

9) Major airline pilots

While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated.

By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

The pilot's unions are the most powerful in the industry. They demand premium pay as if still in the glory days of long-gone Pan Am and TWA, rather than the cutthroat, deregulated market of under-$200 coast-to-coast roundtrips. In what amounts to a per-passenger commission, the larger the plane, the more they earn - even though it takes little more skill to pilot a jumbo jet. It's as much the airplane mechanics who hold our fate in their hands.
 

Link

Thought that was amusing.  Pretty much dead on too.

From an Atlanta TV Station report regarding a pilot pay concession deal:
 

Delta pilots are currently among the highest paid in the nation. They earn an average of $100,000 to $300,000 per year, according to the company.

Link

It would seem to me Delta should know what its pilots are making.

But, what do I know, I am not a pro pilot.

dago

[Dago]

Originally posted by talliven
jetblue makes a decent profit for now.  mainly because they still haven't paid 1 cent for thore a320's they fly.  once airbus starts collecting there lease and those same A320's start coming due for there major mainenance checks we'll see just how large their profits remain.  

Absolutely correct, a lot of us are curious to see how they fare in the future.

dago