Originally posted by MaddogJoe
Some of you guys talk about a "vertical scissors". What is it, and more importantly does anyone have film? 
We know the 38 is tops in going vertical....we're talking zoom... but even so zig zagging back and forth as we climb seem counter productive. I, as I'm sure others may already do this move, and just don't know that we are, but an explination could help.
Nomak showed me that the main idea is to maneuver to get a shot solution, not to just "do the maneuvers". Pellik showed me a strong merge, where going vertical in a double was a nice move to get on top and take control....tho AK-AK has know to get triples....I have no idea how !", but how much is too aggressive? when its 1 on 1 do ya throw away a ton of to go for the shot?
I'll describe verticle scissors now reguarding a particular situation, and send a quick film from a DA fight I had with shane the other week to the 479th site that should be availabe in a day or so.
Let's jump right into a fight between two planes, a 38 and a spit9, where the spit9 has gotten a good advantage from the merge and is currently d200 out and about 100ft higher then the 38 on his 6. The spit is in the process of completing a maneuver and his nose is still below the 38, but he is pulling up to look for the guns solution, and by being nose down he is accellerating. To start the verticle scissors the 38 pilot pulls hard into the verticle, which is the smart move since the spit pilot is closing and is already fighting to get his nose up. By pulling up the 38 pilot reduces his rate of travel in the horizontal, and also slows down his plane by converting E to alt. Once he gets his nose straight up he rolls 180 and starts to pull it back down. Because of the reduced horizontal travel and because he put himself out of the spits guns the spit overshoots below him. Also because the 38 is slower, maybe only 80mph even when his nose reaches the horizon and he is travelling only horizontally, he is forcing an overshoot. The positions are now partially reversed. The 38 pilot is high and behind the spit, but his nose has to drop into a dive because of the sub-stall speed. The spit pilot wishes to regain his position and pulls up into the -exact same move-. He uses the verticle to reduce his horizontal travel and slow him down enough so that the 38 overshoots under him as he pulls up out of his stall recovery dive. The spit also reaches sub stall speeds and his nose drops past the 38 on it's way up. You now have a situation where both planes are scissoring in front and behind each other while maneuvering entierly in the verticle.
Eventually this fight will go to the 38, however. After a few moments of scissoring like this the hard maneuvers both pilots are doing drops speeds even further. Now when the 38 pilot goes up he drops far enough below stall speeds that his nose naturally drops back down, while the spit pilot finds a much nastier stall awaiting him at the top of the scissor. That's why spit9 pilots don't do verticle scissors with 38s very often. This whole thing is a nasty battle of successive overshoot maneuvers.
Your other question was about why you would want to "zig zag" in the verticle. When planes enter a stall fight, which encompasses the rope-a-dope maneuver, the winner of the fight isn't the guy who goes up higher
unless the lower plane is outside of the higher planes level flight recovery altitude. The winner is the guy who's stall is better timed. If you're going up behind me and stall first I rope. If I'm going up behind you and you stall first you'll overshoot in your stall recovery dive giving me the attack position. When you have so much more E then your opponent that he can't even get within d600 for a shot on you then going straight up is fine. You're sticking up way above him hoping he will throw himself into a complete stall just pointing his plane at something well out of range. This works on newer sticks, but many pilots will break off early knowing exactly what your plans are. My rope-a-dope is very different from this in that I try to decieve my opponent. I'll be going only maybe 50mph faster then him as I take my pass, and he can probably get a good tracking shot if he follows me up. So what do I do? I barrel roll straight up with my nose about 10 degrees shy of verticle. By not going straight up the closure between our planes is pretty much zero instead of negative 50mph, giving him the impression he can catch me. Also hitting a plane in a barrel roll is hard enough, let alone when you're fighting a stall. Thus I keep him nice and close, maybe in the d400 range, while we both go up. When I start getting down to 100mph or below I know he is stalling and just reverse over and pop him. I find this ropes many many more people then the go super fast and extend up approach. The 38 is both an angles and E fighter, which makes it's ideal fighting style that of putting your opponent into a difficult E situation and then starting a turnfight.
-pellik
