Author Topic: Vitamin E supplements = bad  (Read 564 times)

Offline Morpheus

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2004, 04:06:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Octavius
Apples and oranges Morpheus.  Vitamins maintain, steroids build.



That study is wonky.  So they studied 136,000 elderly.  They're halfway dead already ;)  The article doesn't specify what they got themselves into in the 50+ years before this study.  Amazing they can narrow it to simply vitamin E.


I guess I'll be more blunt.

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Offline SOB

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2004, 04:36:20 PM »
I think somebody needs to reset the Yeager Tardbot.
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Offline myelo

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2004, 07:12:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Octavius
That study is wonky.  So they studied 136,000 elderly.  They're halfway dead already ;)  The article doesn't specify what they got themselves into in the 50+ years before this study.  Amazing they can narrow it to simply vitamin E.


This was a meta-analysis of other previously reported studies. The average age in the various studies ranged from 47 to 84 years. They tended to be older patients because most trials targeted populations at high risk for a chronic disease, most often heart disease. That’s because most studies were trying to find out if Vit. E was helpful in preventing these diseases, as many people (especially vitamin manufacturers) had claimed.

It not amazing at all that they narrowed it to vitamin E, because these were randomized trials. That means you take a group of patient and randomly assign them to get either vitamin E or the control. That way the only difference between the two groups is whether or not they get vitamin E. Therefore, any difference in outcome is likely due to the Vitamin E.
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Offline Eagler

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2004, 07:23:42 PM »
E, C & Zinc every other day and you will not catch a cold
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Offline Octavius

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2004, 07:34:46 PM »
Thats just it though Myelo.  How controlled is it?  

I think genetics certainly has something [not everything] to do with susceptability to colds, heart disease, obesity, etc.  Unless both groups had identical genetic makeup, then the results of the studies blaming a certain vitamin can be described as more random or chaotic than anything.  If you randomize randomness, you get random.

I dunno.  Every night I hear the retarted local news station scraping the bottom of the pot when they have yet another study of bogus results.  How many times have we seen flip flops on the butter vs. margerine 'debate'?  

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« Last Edit: November 12, 2004, 07:37:28 PM by Octavius »
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Offline myelo

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2004, 08:26:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Octavius Thats just it though Myelo.  How controlled is it?  [/i]


Very controlled. The only looked at placebo controlled studies. In scientific terms, this is the bestest controlled there is.

Quote
Originally posted by Octavius I think genetics certainly has something [not everything] to do with susceptability to colds, heart disease, obesity, etc. Unless both groups had identical genetic makeup, then the results of the studies blaming a certain vitamin can be described as more random or chaotic than anything. If you randomize randomness, you get random. [/i]


No and no. I'm not sure you understand how these studies work so I'll try to explain.

You take a group of patients and randomly assigned them to get either Vitamin E (treated group) or a fake pill (control group). You follow them and see what happens in each group.

That way each patient has the same probability of receiving one treatment or the other. This ensures that all factors affecting outcome should be distributed randomly and equally between the treated and control groups.

Each individual patient doesn’t need to be genetically identical because you aren’t comparing individuals. You are comparing the two groups. So as long as each group is equal, any difference in outcome is likely due to the only thing that is different – whether they got Vitamin E or a placebo.

Now, you need to make sure the groups are large enough that any difference between the groups is not due to chance alone. There are mathematical ways to do this and these results are always reported in the study. For example, they may something like this:

The patients that got Vitamin E were 3% more likely to die in 5 years than the placebo group (p=0.027).

This means there is a 2.7% chance that the difference in death between the two groups was due to chance, not the treatment. In other words we can be pretty sure that the difference is due to the Vitamin E.

For the exact details, here is the study
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Offline john9001

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2004, 12:32:57 PM »
what i inturpet from the test is that a placebo will increase life expectancy.

i'm going ask my doctor to perscribe me some placebos.

Offline myelo

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2004, 03:04:38 PM »
pssst... john,  I can hook you up. Me me in the back of the poolhall in an hour. Bring cash.
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Offline RTStuka

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2004, 04:14:57 PM »
I wish I could be around a couple hundred years from now when they look back and think, man what were they thinking with all those vitamins. Just think at how we look back at what they treated illness with in the past and how we laugh, well its bound to continue on like that, as research and technology keeps moving forward. Let us not forget it wasnt so long ago that doctors actaully prescribed methenphatamines to people.

Offline Nash

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2004, 04:42:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SOB
I think somebody needs to reset the Yeager Tardbot.


:rofl

Offline rpm

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2004, 09:31:09 PM »
Heard a guy on talk radio this morning say it was all bunk. Vitamin E was great for you and his brand was the best evar. He even had it on sale especially for me, the informed listener.
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Offline Lizking

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Vitamin E supplements = bad
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2004, 09:48:28 PM »
Morons, you are polluting your precious bodily fluids.