Author Topic: Secrets of the Ki-84: It's all about trim (Read 1301 times)

Widewing · « **on:** November 13, 2004, 12:41:03 PM »

I suppose everyone who has flown the Ki-84 recognizes that the elevators stiffen up so badly at high speed, that it simply cannot turn worth a hoot. Can't even get about 3g at 500 mph. I have complained about it several times...

Well, stupid me. I hope Karnak reads this, because this will be a revelation and will solve all of the performance problems he has been dealing with flying the Ki-84.

On a hunch, I went to the TA and took up a Hayate with 50% gas. I climbed to 10k over the field ran a few dive tests. As I suspected, at 500 mph, combat trim was setting the elevators at full down. That's bad.

So, I climbed back up and turned combat trim off. I set trim in all three axes to neutral and repeated the dive tests.

I needed some forward pressure on the stick, but could remain vertical. There was a tendency to roll left slightly. On my next dive, I dialed in a bit of right rudder trim to offset the roll tendency.

The results: Excellent control right up to 500 mph. I could pull black-out turns easily. Just be careful at 550 mph. At this speed the elevators will come off under the slightest loading. However, at that speed, the other fighters aren't doing a heck of a lot better.

No longer will P-51s and La-7s out-turn the Hayate at high speeds. We tried it, the Hayate sticks like superglue. Since they can't break away at high speed, they are left with two options; they can run or they can maneuver...the latter of which means almost certain death (assuming equal pilot skills).

Those of you who know how to get the P-38 to perform, the Ki-84 will be second nature. Use combat trim for climbout if you want, but once you get near the enemy, go to manual.

Trim it neutral aileron and elevator (or a tiny bit nose down on elevator if you wish) with a slight right rudder bias for torque. Do this and the Ki-84 is transformed. Yeah, at very high speeds you will need a touch of forward pressure on the stick, or you can map the elevator trim to a hat switch like I did and adjust it on the fly, so to speak. But, you can just leave it neutral if you prefer and find it adequately comfortable.

There is one hassle though, the damned trim gauge is tiny and hard to see.

Like Mikey says, "try it, you'll like it."

My regards,

Widewing

Karnak · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2004, 01:48:19 PM »

Thanks for the tip Widewing. I have elevator and aileron trim mapped to my rotaries right now.

I'll start using this.

mechanic · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2004, 02:05:44 PM »

the KI-84 is either a curse or a blessing.

last night i had my first spit5 vs ki-84 fight that i didnt totaly dominate in my spitty.

The initial merge was in my favour by a long shot and within a few turns i was forcing deflection solutions and managed to get some pings on his a/c.

But...

as soon as he slowed down and got his flaps out he started to pull my advantage away, and within about 2 mins of tight manouvers he was the one pulling the deflections.

The fight could have gone on for another few minutes, and i certainly was odds on for losing, thankfully for me, a friendly came down and took his wing off.

Assist on Timppa

Timppa, was a great fight, and I fully appreciate you would have got me without the help i recieved.

was a humbling experience as all other fights with ki84 i have totaly controlled and won.

Just goes to prove that as people get used to it, the KI-84 will become just as deadly as was forseen. All the negative posts about it just reflect on how hard it is to learn a totaly new a/c .

It will almost certainly take a seat in the top 10 a/c in AH2 in my opinion.

batfink

~~ty for tips widewing, i will try to kepp my fights against them faster and tighter~~

TimRas · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2004, 03:03:27 PM »

batfink
Yes, when you slow down to get flaps out in Ki-84, it turns VERY well

Karnak · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2004, 06:13:06 PM »

OK. I flew it with CT off for a bit. Do this and it becomes amazingly manuverable for a Japanese fighter.

What seems odd to me is that the trim prevents you from getting anywhere near full deflection out of the elevators.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2004, 06:53:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
OK. I flew it with CT off for a bit. Do this and it becomes amazingly manuverable for a Japanese fighter.

What seems odd to me is that the trim prevents you from getting anywhere near full deflection out of the elevators.

I center my trims in most turn fighters in most combat situations. I call combat trim RTB trim which I use for a relaxing flight back to landing - sometimes I use it ion FW190D9 in high speed attack passes but thats about it.

One of my biggest gripes about AH2 is the autoclimb trim setting every fighter is set to automatically when you go to runway - all the trims are oftemn set to extremes and its really a pain. I really hope HTC introduces a center all trims keyboard command or at least a selector swich in flight preferences to disable the climb trim presets like they do for the auto take-off or stall limiter etc..

I dont have a super fancy stick with rotary commands as I suspect most donr and it a huge chore to eliminate that trim using multiple keyboard buttons right on takeoff if I dont want to, or situation does not allow autoclimb. Yea I could hit CT but that has a whole bunch of problemse for many turn fighters..

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2004, 08:13:49 PM »

Just as a quickie generic equalizer for most planes, when I up from a field I get the speed up to right around 200 and then hit the combat trim on and then back off. It evens things out enough that I get good maneuverability and the nose isnt always trying to go straight up. Some require manual trimming beyond that, but at least it gets me a good start point.

I've noticed almost every plane I've tried is wobbly and has way too much elevator trim at takeoff. Is there a way to edit the default trim settings?

mora · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2004, 08:18:52 PM »

It still climbs better than it should.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2004, 08:34:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2

I've noticed almost every plane I've tried is wobbly and has way too much elevator trim at takeoff. Is there a way to edit the default trim settings?

Thats a great idea, I'd love an adjustable default trim setting for each plane - just like views.

FDutchmn · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2004, 08:52:10 PM »

thnx widewing. this works!

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2004, 11:24:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Thats a great idea, I'd love an adjustable default trim setting for each plane - just like views.

My thoughts exactly. If the game can save custom view settings for each plane why cant it set custom trim settings too?

Widewing · « **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2004, 12:15:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mora
It still climbs better than it should.

I disagree. It climbs like it's supposed to, about 3,600 fpm from sea level on full tanks.

It climbs right at 4,000 fpm on half tanks, and half tanks is enough to stay airborne quite a while. I never load more than 75% gas.

My regards,

Widewing

Mitsu · « **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2004, 01:25:34 AM »

Nice info, Widewing.

BTW Did anyone have a weird/strange stall in the Ki-84?
I experienced it somtimes when using flaps in slow speed maneuvering.
I can't recover it always...it might be bug?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #13 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:22:26 AM »

Should we start a thread to ask for plane adjustable default trims? Or at least for some solution to the default preset climb trims when you up a plane?

Wolfala · « **Reply #14 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:29:03 AM »

Speaking of 38's - how does a 38 fight an 84 effectivly?