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Author Topic: Marines war criminals?  (Read 7015 times)

Offline Wolfala

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2004, 03:26:21 AM »
I dunno, but last I checked insurgents weren't covered under the Geneva Convention - so gloves off. All is fair IMO.
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Offline Fishu

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2004, 03:40:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wolfala
I dunno, but last I checked insurgents weren't covered under the Geneva Convention - so gloves off. All is fair IMO.


I guess that makes the executed partisans, aka insurgents, something we can write off of the nazi's misdeeds.
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Offline Wolfala

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2004, 03:55:37 AM »
I didn't say it was fair - but thats war. If you have a better fourm to solve disputes decisively, i'm all eyes. And the key phrase is "decisively".
« Last Edit: November 16, 2004, 03:59:33 AM by Wolfala »
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Offline -dead-

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2004, 05:23:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wolfala
All is fair IMO.


Quote
Originally posted by Wolfala
I didn't say it was fair - but thats war.


Quick doublethinking, Batman! ;)
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Offline Spooky

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2004, 05:59:11 AM »
Hard to judge from our comfortable chairs...

right or wrong, the guy was in the middle of battle, nothing is black or white in a war zone.

I would not jump to conclusions here.
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Offline Curval

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2004, 07:06:47 AM »
The marnine is a soldier serving in a war zone.

He is NOT a war crimminal IMHO.

The booby trapping of dead and wounded insurgents has led to this happening.

The real crimes of this war have been posted on the internet and depicting heads being sawed off while yelling "God is Great".

Sorry...I simply cannot call this a war-crime.
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Offline DJ111

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2004, 07:09:26 AM »
I heard that the Marine had been shot in the face the day before and had just returned to duty 1 day after.

:eek:
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2004, 07:25:06 AM »
What does it mean to be a POW? After the eariler fighting when they were wouned and supposedly "captured"  these guys were left unatenned in that mosque in an active war zone for a whole day during which the US army contined to take fire from that mosque. Do POW's engage in combat after they are captured?  

Also what does unarmed mean? Unarmed means not having a weapon. It does not mean not having a gun or rifle. Correct?  Considering the weapons and tactics of these indsurgents where they clerarly used wounded and dead men as booby trap weapons, can we really say he was 100% for sure unarmed.  

I've seen clips of the video where the man is moving up to where he gets shot, how could those marines know he wasnt trying to roll over and expose a grenade or an armed mine to attack the marines?

I dont think its at all clear..
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2004, 07:28:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
There can be no doubt that that marine committed a war crime. He shot and killed a wounded, unarmed POW (I don't think anyone can get more "non-combatant" than that). However there are some important mitigating circumstances: the illegal tactics employed by his enemy, the casualty his unit took the day before in a similar situation, and the fact that he didn't know the Iraqis were POWs. The man deserves punishment, but what "level" of punishment I cannot say. I do however have a feeling the tribunal will hang him out to dry, so to speak, since it is now an international news event and an embarrassment to the US forces.


At which point did he become a POW? Was he Tagged or marked as such? Was he cuffed?
Fact that he was wounded and laying there IMO doesnt make him a POW particularly in light of the mitigating circumstances.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2004, 07:32:08 AM »
Is it a crime to shoot a wounded soldier  who is trying to detonate an explosive as you approach him?
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2004, 07:33:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
It really doesn't matter under what circumstances the shooting took place. An unarmed and wounded prisoner of war was executed. It is a crime whether it was accidental or not.


Problem with that idea is at the time they didnt know if he was armed or not.
And in light of recent events it was far from unreasonable to assume he was armed.

If he was previously determined to be a POW he should have been cuffed, wounded or not.
Hell police in this country even cuff wounded prisoners
Untill that point I dont see how he can be labled as a POW but still a potentialy leathal enemy combatant.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2004, 07:39:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What does it mean to be a POW? After the eariler fighting when they were wouned and supposedly "captured"  these guys were left unatenned in that mosque in an active war zone for a whole day during which the US army contined to take fire from that mosque. Do POW's engage in combat after they are captured?  

Also what does unarmed mean? Unarmed means not having a weapon. It does not mean not having a gun or rifle. Correct?  Considering the weapons and tactics of these indsurgents where they clerarly used wounded and dead men as booby trap weapons, can we really say he was 100% for sure unarmed.  

I've seen clips of the video where the man is moving up to where he gets shot, how could those marines know he wasnt trying to roll over and expose a grenade or an armed mine to attack the marines?

I dont think its at all clear..


Good point.
These guys had been "captured the day before yet the marines ended up having to shoot up the place again the day after (before they re entered the place)

Therefore these guys were no longer POWs but once again enemy combatants
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Offline Eagler

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2004, 07:46:15 AM »
what Dago and Curval have already stated:

"Sites reported a Marine in the same unit had been killed just a day earlier when he tended to the booby-trapped dead body of an insurgent."

Time to get the tv cameras out of the war zone, should never have been allowed in there in the first place
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2004, 07:52:22 AM »
GS they were POWs the day before, yes.

However the mosque was retaken by the insurgents and they fought against US forces again. Therefore they were no longer POW.  I cant imagine that first days POW status would automatically still apply to them after they rejoined the battle alongside other insurgents from that mosque.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2004, 07:55:57 AM by GRUNHERZ »
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Offline lazs2

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Marines war criminals?
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2004, 08:00:44 AM »
well.. i know the polish and viking commie league is all wet and worked up about this but it might not be anything.   The enemy are all war criminals.. they are surrendering and faking death and then firing on soldiers... if a wounded war criminal (soldier dressed in civilian clothes) is laying wounded and makes any move at all.... I'm gonna put a dozen more rounds in him  

This is not a police stop this is war where you make a split second decision that may save a lot of fellow soldiers lives.   You may not make the best decision but you can't be held accountable if you say that you thought he was making a move.

a bunch of war criminals are faking being wo0unded or killed in order to booby trap soldiers.. if they move they get shot again.   good policy.

lazs
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